Storm in a tea cup.

[Juan Twothree]

We have been meaning to do it but today we have removed the RNLI from our wills. And written to them to let them

It's sad that you feel you have to do this.

I don't know about the latest incident at Whitby, but I do know quite a lot about previous incidents that have been discussed on here.

Lifeboat crew are not stood down for trivial reasons, although that is what they claim when they go running to the press.
In all the cases I know about there has been a lot more going on, that the aggrieved party has chosen to keep very quiet about.

I know of one station where the removal of a particular individual, which was widely discussed at the time, was actually a huge breath of fresh air. Crew that had previously left have rejoined, new crew have been recruited, and it is generally just a much happier place.

You hear about coxswains and crew being sacked, because it gets plastered all over the media. But you never hear about long standing crew members who just quietly leave because they have had enough of being bullied and harassed.

Don't judge the RNLI by what you read in the press, or the warped views of a few people on here.

 

[Cheery]

The petition has been removed due to inappropriate comments. Might this suggest that the majority of people were voicing the opinion that they didn't like the oversensitive snowflake diktat?

 

[Juan Twothree]

If I was on a sinking boat in a storm, I would rather a rough pair of hands who gets the job done coming out to me than a prissy snowflake who writes out a risk assessment. So would me wife.

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick.
Where have you got the idea that we have to write out a risk assessment before we come out and rescue you?

 

[JumbleDuck]

The petition has been removed due to inappropriate comments. Might this suggest that the majority of people were voicing the opinion that they didn't like the oversensitive snowflake diktat?

I think that should probably read "... voicing bigoted and ignorant opinions without any knowledge of the situation"

 

[Juan Twothree]

The petition has been removed due to inappropriate comments. Might this suggest that the majority of people were voicing the opinion that they didn't like the oversensitive snowflake diktat?

The RNLI managers who took the decision to stand down the two crew formed their opinion by interviewing the people involved, and taking statements from others at the station.

The people signing the petition formed their opinion by reading a report in the Daily Mail.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . I know of one station where the removal of a particular individual, . . . was actually a huge breath of fresh air. Crew that had previously left have rejoined, new crew have been recruited, and it is generally just a much happier place.

I've also known it to be true in several mountain rescue teams. Some well known 'characters' who were thought to be the backbone of the teams, were in fact pretty insufferable and their (forced) retirements allowed the team to progress and grow both in numbers and effectiveness.

I wouldn't put any store in the stories spun to the papers, especially the Daily Mail. They just cherry pick bits to advance their favourite agenda of 'PC gawn mad' as testified by the usual acolytes on here regurgitating their usual drivel about snowflakes, etc.

 

[Mark-1]

There's got to be more to this

+1

 

[Dutch01527]

In corporate life I have seen witch hunts end the career of commited and talented individuals because of political correctness that no one, even the CEO, dared to challenge.

In both cases there was a female senior manager with a radical feminist outlook who took offence when she heard about a comment made in a social situation. In both cases the lady who directly received the comment had no issue and gave as good as she got. Basically drunken flirting / teasing. I had one of the ladies who received comments in tears in my office because her friend had lost his job and she blamed herself for starting and encouraging the banter.

We will probably never know what happened here but I would not automatically assume that common sense and good judgement was applied by management.

 

[Mark-1]

I would not automatically assume that common sense and good judgement was applied by management.

No, but it's a reasonable assumption that the RNLI does not dismiss volunteers for a first offence of smutty mugs.

 

[Graham376]

Times have changed for the worse in my opinion. I wonder how this and similar minded officials would react in motor trade or engineering workshops where Pirelli, Star Birds and Page 3 calendars are the normal wallpaper. One of the best collections I ever saw decorated a hospital mortuary wall

 

[Dutch01527]

No, but it's a reasonable assumption that the RNLI does not dismiss volunteers for a first offence of smutty mugs.

Maybe not but these things escalate. All speculation but the following series of events is entirely feasible:
- senior manager sees smutty mugs and over reacts by issuing a verbal warning and severe talking too instead of having a quiet word
- crew men take exception to what they perceive to be heavy handed treatment and words / emails are exchanged with senior manager
- senior manager escalates and starts further discipline procedures
- crew men get even more angry and exchange private social media messages that express feelings about senior manager
- RNLI discipline procedure access crewmen’s social media, reads comments and now has no option other than to dismisses crew

Probably faults all around but my natural sympathies (in the absence of any facts admittedly) lie with the men who will risk their lives to save mine, not with a manager who’s intervention on such a trivial matter has resulted in sackings and resignations of such men.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Maybe not but these things escalate. All speculation but the following series of events is entirely feasible:
- senior manager sees smutty mugs and over reacts by issuing a verbal warning and severe talking too instead of having a quiet word
- crew men take exception to what they perceive to be heavy handed treatment and words / emails are exchanged with senior manager
- senior manager escalates and starts further discipline procedures
- crew men get even more angry and exchange private social media messages that express feelings about senior manager
- RNLI discipline procedure access crewmen’s social media reads comments and dismisses crew

Oi. See #20. That was my totally uninformed bit of speculation
Having said that , my experience at a large organisation suggests something similar. Over the last thirty years the workplace has changed enormously and the old shop floor culture has been largely stamped out by the all pervasive office culture. Sometimes that was resisted and things could escalate stupidly over very trivial events. People got sacked not for the minor infringements of the new order but for their "attitude problems" which could be worked into a future disciplinary case over something else. This policy worked in the short term and the culture did change but there were unintended consequences. A nasty atmosphere of subtle intimidation caused the loss of about a quarter of the staff over a few years and nearly destroyed the organisation which is still in recovery. With several RNLI stories recently I do wonder if they are going through a similar process.

 

[Cheery]

I posted the story on an Armed Forces page and some people know of volunteers close by while others are serving at stations where the officious culture is costing volunteers. Robust situations need robust people, not someone who gets upset at the drop of a hat. That's my two penn'orth anyway.

 

[Mark-1]

Maybe not but these things escalate. All speculation but the following series of events is entirely feasible:
- senior manager sees smutty mugs and over reacts by issuing a verbal warning and severe talking too instead of having a quiet word
- crew men take exception to what they perceive to be heavy handed treatment and words / emails are exchanged with senior manager
- senior manager escalates and starts further discipline procedures
- crew men get even more angry and exchange private social media messages that express feelings about senior manager
- RNLI discipline procedure access crewmen’s social media, reads comments and now has no option other than to dismisses crew

Probably faults all around but my natural sympathies (in the absence of any facts admittedly) lie with the men who will risk their lives to save mine, not with a manager who’s intervention on such a trivial matter has resulted in sackings and resignations of such men.

Hence, "There's got to be more to this".

 

[Vega1447]

Maybe not but these things escalate. All speculation but the following series of events is entirely feasible:
- senior manager sees smutty mugs and over reacts by issuing a verbal warning and severe talking too instead of having a quiet word
- crew men take exception to what they perceive to be heavy handed treatment and words / emails are exchanged with senior manager
- senior manager escalates and starts further discipline procedures
- crew men get even more angry and exchange private social media messages that express feelings about senior manager
- RNLI discipline procedure access crewmen’s social media, reads comments and now has no option other than to dismisses crew

Probably faults all around but my natural sympathies (in the absence of any facts admittedly) lie with the men who will risk their lives to save mine, not with a manager who’s intervention on such a trivial matter has resulted in sackings and resignations of such men.

Agreed.

And the manager draws a salary while the volunteer crew don't.

They are not employees and treating them as if they are is stupid.

 

[CCJ]

Hence, "There's got to be more to this".

Following an investigation at Whitby lifeboat station, two volunteers have been stood down. They have the right to challenge this decision and we are waiting to hear if they wish to do so. Four other people have resigned.

This is about much more than ‘saucy mugs’ but for legal reasons and given the crew members have a right of appeal it is not appropriate to say more at this time however we can confirm the investigation focussed on the production of inappropriate material of a sexual nature and associated social media activity directed at an RNLI staff member.

We are aware of speculation about the issue on social media but we want to stress that this was not a trivial matter.

The lifeboat station should be an environment where people can expect to be treated with dignity and respect. We can not allow bullying, harassment or discrimination in what should be a safe and inclusive environment and there will be serious consequences for anybody who demonstrates this behaviour within the RNLI.

By challenging this behaviour, we are standing up for the thousands of volunteers, both male and female, who are committed to doing the right thing as they operate our 238 lifeboat stations, saving lives at sea around the clock, 365 days of the year. Our dedicated volunteers represent the values and principles of our organisation and we will not allow any behaviour that brings the work of the RNLI and our people into disrepute.

We can confirm that the images of the mugs in many of the media articles is not a true representation of what was produced.

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2018/may/03/statement-on-whitby-situation

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... They are not employees and treating them as if they are is stupid.

I disagree, they are very much representatives of the standards that the RNLI aspire to, so employee or not, they represent the RNLI. Their status as the actual boat crew does not give them special immunity or leeway from an expected standard. In fact one could have an opinion that the alleged bullying demonstrates that the person is not a team player and places their opinion higher than the team objectives. At the end of the day, they are not irreplaceable, new team members can be trained up the same as the old team members.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I disagree, they are very much representatives of the standards that the RNLI aspire to, so employee or not, they represent the RNLI. Their status as the actual boat crew does not give them special immunity or leeway from an expected standard. In fact one could have an opinion that the alleged bullying demonstrates that the person is not a team player and places their opinion higher than the team objectives. At the end of the day, they are not irreplaceable, new team members can be trained up the same as the old team members.

Absolutely. Very well put.

 

[JumbleDuck]

In both cases there was a female senior manager with a radical feminist outlook who took offence when she heard about a comment made in a social situation. In both cases the lady who directly received the comment had no issue and gave as good as she got. Basically drunken flirting / teasing. I had one of the ladies who received comments in tears in my office because her friend had lost his job and she blamed herself for starting and encouraging the banter.

Just because one member of a targeted groups is not upset does not excuse offensive and bigoted comments. Do you have any evidence for the senior manager's "radical feminism" beyond her dislike of sexist comments?

 

[shan]

It's sad that you feel you have to do this.

I don't know about the latest incident at Whitby, but I do know quite a lot about previous incidents that have been discussed on here.

Lifeboat crew are not stood down for trivial reasons, although that is what they claim when they go running to the press.
In all the cases I know about there has been a lot more going on, that the aggrieved party has chosen to keep very quiet about.

I know of one station where the removal of a particular individual, which was widely discussed at the time, was actually a huge breath of fresh air. Crew that had previously left have rejoined, new crew have been recruited, and it is generally just a much happier place.

You hear about coxswains and crew being sacked, because it gets plastered all over the media. But you never hear about long standing crew members who just quietly leave because they have had enough of being bullied and harassed.

Don't judge the RNLI by what you read in the press, or the warped views of a few people on here.

Well said.