S'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

[ QUOTE ]
the designs reflect what buyers want.

[/ QUOTE ]With the greatest of respect, it's what the manufacturers want to sell us at an optimum build profit - end of story. Like fashion, manufacturers lead and shape opinion through sales and marketing - not genuine cunsumer need - that's a polite myth
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

To give a plug to my (now) home town I really enjoy the Grand Pavois - La Rochelle boat show... Stacks of interesting different boats afloat and the normal stuff on shore - al boaty no potato peelers! Ryan air is pretty cheap and so are hotels. I got tired of Southampton years ago for may of the reasons stated.

Michael
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

Sorry I disagree with both you and bluedragon.

If people wanted long keel boats they would be expanding the Rustler factory. I have sailed on a Rustler and they are well built quality boats that are value for money but a not high volume(pun!) cheap boat.

The fact is that few are sold. I believe they will also make a Bowman or Starlight to order.

These boats do not seem to be in demand simply because there are not enough people that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is (they just post on here as world experts as to what we all should buy and why modern boats are crap)

If there was the demand at least a few boatbuilders would satisfy tha demand to make some money. Boatbuilders do not have strong views of what we should buy and sail their only fear is loosing money and litigation!!
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

Feel free to disagree, it wouldn't do for us all to be/like the same. I don't need maximum volume/berths in minimum length; for me other criteria are more important. I like a boat that to ME at least looks like my idea of a boat, is built like a boat and sails like a boat. I'm not asking you to share my opinion (and don't believe bluedragon is either) and I certainly didn't suggest that modern boats are crap, perhaps that's your perception not mine?
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

I'm not talking just about long keel boats...but boats like a Sadler 34 or the Beneteaus of of the 80s. The Rustler is very nice, but I believe they only have the 35 footer now, and that's not much choice in a whole market is it? Yes we need more people showing an interest in buying the more "classic" designs, but in effect there is now very little to choose from and virtually nothing at the 26-32ft end of the market, which for most of us is the "affordable" segment. The demise of the British boat building industry is very sad, as whatever is claimed by the likes of Bavaria, Beneteau, etc, their current crop of designs is aimed at the Med and Caribbean charter markets...not the British Isles...end of rant /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

I started a thread some while ago about what boats would you like to see ressurected and it surprised me the number of "great" british boats that are still available eg Contessa but they are just not selling!

What I said was a bit tongue in cheek as if I was not in the charter market I would seriously consider some of the older Jeanneaus as they have lasted often through a charter life and with some tlc are great sailing boats.

I notice that often the "better" boats have a number of shroud anchor points while the cheaper boats make do with just one each side!

The Rustler is 36' and there is a new 42' deck and hull (which I don't believe has ever been in the water) frequently advertised at less than 1/2 price in Southampton.

I do struggle though with what people say they want and what is selling!
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the designs reflect what buyers want.

[/ QUOTE ]With the greatest of respect, it's what the manufacturers want to sell us at an optimum build profit - end of story. Like fashion, manufacturers lead and shape opinion through sales and marketing - not genuine cunsumer need - that's a polite myth

[/ QUOTE ]

Socialist clap trap! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The boat builders will compete to give you anything you want and that they can make money on. The reality of life is that the big market is for the Bav type boat, just like the big market in cars is for the 3 door hatch. You want a heavy old long keeler and you can have one - the Yanks make them. But heavy = raw materials = cost , so you will have to pay.

The only outfit that gives you what you should have rather than what you want is the government (and possibly the software industry! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

[ QUOTE ]
the designs reflect what buyers want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I should be clearer. "Designs reflect what you can sell to consumers." BTW, I'm about as much a socialist as was Thatcher /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif IMHO, I have always found trade shows a waste of space, time and money, both for the exhibitor and the visitor. Nowadays the trend is towards running your own small well targetted specialist show that you invite your own clients and WIP to! Better return, less disruption to sales force.

"Fear factor" is why most exhibitors have to participate in public trade shows, but a pain in the neck if your customers can go around and view the competition under the same roof. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

[ QUOTE ]


Perhaps I should be clearer. "Designs reflect what you can sell to consumers." .



[/ QUOTE ]

I rest my case

Southampton boat show has boats that people are buying and there are few long keelers or older british type boats because no one wants them /prepared to pay for them.

Why then do people complain when the show doesn't have what they misguidedly think is good?
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

NorthBeach are designing a very nice 24-35ft range of boats... let's hope we'll seem them selling in the UK!
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

I have spent the day looking at a wide range of new boats.
It's been about 12 years since I looked at new boats in any detail
Yikes!..about 40% are built no better than yogurt pots.
They look great!... spacious and very comfy to lounge about in. Design has moved on in a big way. Alas build quality and fittings has gone to the dogs (accounts dept)
I would not GO TO SEA in em
It takes very little time or brains to spot how they make such opulence for so little money

I am very surprised that people have not died as a result of flimsy gear failure on such boats.
So I must be wrong. There are a lot of em sailing and very few dead bodies. Which proves my opinion is invalid.
But I still wont go to sea in one.
 
Re: S\'ton Boat Show: Is it me???

Your view is not necessarily invalid.
If the people that buy them don't go to sea in them either, then that would explain why there are not more dead bodies about !
 
Re: I disagree

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If the posting asks this question, why should it be on Scuttlebutt, which is the Yachting Monthly forum (in theory).
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A fair point. I tend to view the PBO forum as a practical forum largely free from dogmatic ( or dare I say bigoted views without substance ) on what a boat should or should not be..

The forum still supports strong views on materials and designs for ‘universal’ type products such as seacocks, sails etc but are nearly always backed up with WHY . For me , I am quite comfortable with this and want to hear about it.

What I think is unfortunate is the ‘name calling’ i.e. people calling others peoples boats ‘ yoghurt pots’ or the only proper shape and material for a boat is XYZ. THis is almost a non stop theme on Scuttlebutt. If these unfortunate terms were at least backed up with comments as to why such boats are dangerous or unseaworthy it would make better reading.

As mentioned these kinds of comments are very actively supported on Scuttlebutt which for me, and many others makes it not worth visiting any more. ‘Is this the most ugliest boat’ posted posted recently by TwisterKen for example made no reference to seaworthiness, performance, livability , value etc.

A couple of years ago I went to an Old Gaffers rally where a playground song concerning knocking ‘white boats’ was sung in the evening which takes some believing but does reflect the kind of bigotry around in sailing.

I think most people when tuning in to the PBO forum are thinking ‘practical’ rather than the foregoing. If people are going to be insulted as to what kind of boat they have decided to own the forum is deprived of a contributor and is sader for it. I happen to enjoy a long keeled boat but quite understand why many others would not. Why can't others respect our own personal choices ?.
 
Re: I disagree

I am sorry alex...
You seem to have read my post... looked at the picture of my boat... and filled in loads of prejudice yourself
I made no negative comment on the shape or construction material/s used in boats.
The AMOUNT of constuction material.. The size and number of bolts holding the fittings on. the size of the fittings is what concerned me.

To clarify .... A yogurt pot is made of an ideal material for its job.
Its shape is perhaps not perfect on the eye (and in part designed with ease of removal from the mould) , but it works quite well for it's intended application.
It is generally made only just thick enuff to contain the yogurt beyond its sell by date.

You need it explained WHY i think this is dangerous??
 
Re: I disagree

<<You need it explained WHY i think this is dangerous??>>

Yes I do.

As much detail/data as you think you need to present to make your case.

I am one of the admirers of your video, and the wonderful old boat you restored with the fittings thought necessary at the time.

However, I am happy enough to be planning a v. long trip on the sort of boat you would not go to sea in (emotive language indeed).
 
Re: I disagree

Well I agree that people should have a bit more easy-going nature, but on the other hand why are you getting so uptight about a bit of name calling?
I like all sorts of boats, cars etc. etc. If someone tells me I am wrong and my opinions are shite, well, so what? What do they know, they're obviously know-nothing dimwits.
 
Re: I disagree

Have to agree with Alec. PBO has always been the forum for serious stuff, and jokes and banter and general stuff went, historically, onto Mobo or Scuttlebutt, though now the lounge is there for the more general non boaty threads.

PBO's sanctity as a place for serious boating stuff should be preserved, as there are few forums on the internet that satisfy this requirement, and there are plenty of other forums here on ybw that satisfy all the other requirements of forumites
 
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