Stiff Steering - The Saga continues!

[Richard10002]

I’m going to replace the bearings on the shaft which the wheel turns at the top of the pedestal, (Cliff at winchservicing.com is hopefully going to supply the bits), but I also want to try lubricating the steering wires:

Whitlock Constellation 400 secured to centre cockpit floor by 4 big screw headed bolts. Steering cable which disappears into 2 conduits secured to the bottom of the pedestal. Me too fat to get into the engine space to remove/replace the nuts on the underside of the cockpit sole….. So…..

Given that I will be trying to lubricate the wires solo, and that I do not intend to attempt removing the pedestal at this point, I am thinking of a funnel and long tube arrangement whereby I can poke the tube into the top of the conduit, and pour some kind of lubricant down the conduit via the funnel and tube. I would probably block the steering gear end of the conduits, so that I would have some control over how it pours out when I unblock them.

One suggestion on the Moody Owners forum is to attach some windscreen washer tube, or similar, to a spray can of grease, which made me think of using the tube from my Pela Oil Extractor.

Any other ideas for the funnel and tube arrangement, as well as a suitable lubricant, (I'm thinking grease may be a bit thick to run down the conduits), along with any comments on the suitability of my idea, or any alternatives, would be welcomed… I’m sure I’m not inventing the wheel here, and something similar must have been done before.

Many Thanks


Richard

 

[Evadne]

The old motorcycle trick to lubricate brake and clutch cables is to make a funnel out of plasticene or blu-tack. If the conduit is big enough to poke a plastic tube down it, then this advice is probably superfluous.
Be careful what lubricant you use, as some cable sheaths' plastic can swell up if mineral oil is used on bikes, I don't pretend to know about wheel steered boats and you may have enough clearance to cope with this. Silicone oil would be better if this is a problem, WD40 or 3-in-one would probably be the worst.

 

[FullCircle]

Richard,
have you thought of trying motorcycle chain lube spray? It has a long spray nozzle, and congeals onto the chain, and works its way in.
As its subject to all weathers, including salt on a motorcycle, can't really see the down side.

 

[cliff]

I did a similar job on the teleflex/morse engine controls without removing the inner cable by fitting a plastic bottle with the bottom cut off to make a "funnel", sliding this over the cable and outer and sealing the mouth of the bottle to the outer sheath with plasticine. Filled the bottle/funnel with lusol and worked the inner back and forth until the lusol came out the other end (with a load of dirt/rust etc - kept going until it was clean then changed the lusol for silicon oil and worked the inner back and forth until clean silicon oil came out. They have been fine for the past 3 years.
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[nedmin]

If it was me I would mix engine oil with some white spirit,more w/spirit than oil,put that down,work the cables and finish off with neat oil.The chances of getting grease down are remote.

 

[2Tizwoz]

I can't advise about problems with swelling plastics other than to say it isn't a problem which I have met with oil and cable sheaths but 'chainsaw oil' is very effective and long lasting for a variety of lubrication purposes. It makes long strings due to the 'tack' additive and stays in place on chains but is equally effective for car door hinges and other places where plain mineral oil is usually incorporated into a grease to stay in place.

It doesn't dry out leaving the carrier soap to block things up the way a grease does.

Toolstation do it as do others. You can get an environmentally friendly version (vegetable oil based?) but I have no experience of it but olive oil is a good lubricant. What did Ellen MacArthur run her generator on?

 

[Robin]

This may have been mentioned already but if your cable system is 'pull-pull' in conduit it is similar to that on our old Westerly 33. I was told by Whitlock that the wires could wear grooves in the conduits especially where there was a tight radius and doubly so if the cables had been overtightened. The wires then had a tendency to 'grab' in the grooves causing stiffness. The only cure would be to replace the conduits, which is indeed what I did on the W33 and the replacement ones were fitted with brass/bronze in line fittings with grease points, located at a strategic point along each conduit for ease of later access.

I still find it difficult however to relate to a quadrant pilot not being able to move things when apparently you can do so by hand.

 

[games]

My system,

Centre/cockpit, 2 3/4 turns, conduit cable with greaser on each cable. Cable in good condition. heavy long steel skeg
rudder.

My problem, heavy steering, nearly impossible to use emergency tiller, (but would prob be okay with cable broken)
wanted to fit an autopilot and realised that it may struggle from a tiller arm.

After following the instuctions (from i believe an edson pdf) for
tension the system was no better.

My solution, slacken the cables at the quadrant till i was still happy with the helm response and i fitted an S3G hydraulic
autopilot.

My understanding of my system is that the cables were and still are routed to tight, and the correct tensions did not allow
enough slack, my helm is a little wooly, but i am used to it, and the autopilot works a treat.

ps, check your cable you may find greasers lurking somewhere.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
This may have been mentioned already but if your cable system is 'pull-pull' in conduit it is similar to that on our old Westerly 33. I was told by Whitlock that the wires could wear grooves in the conduits especially where there was a tight radius and doubly so if the cables had been overtightened. The wires then had a tendency to 'grab' in the grooves causing stiffness. The only cure would be to replace the conduits, which is indeed what I did on the W33 and the replacement ones were fitted with brass/bronze in line fittings with grease points, located at a strategic point along each conduit for ease of later access.

I still find it difficult however to relate to a quadrant pilot not being able to move things when apparently you can do so by hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cliff at winchservicing.com has given the same advice re the grooves etc.. Lubrication is merely an attempt to avoid replacing the conduits.

I think I may not have made things clear. I can move the quadrant by hand if the wires are dissconnected from the quadrant, but not if they are connected. The pilot can almost move the quadrant with the wires connected, but needs a bit of a push on the wheel to get it going, (which is what makes me think changing the bearings and lubricating the wires may work). The thing I can do by hand is turn the wheel with all the wires connected, but it is definitely a bit stiff.

Cliff suggested looking for grease points but, unless they are immediately below the cockpit sole, there isnt one.

Thanks for the input... it's good to know I'm not alone!

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
Filled the bottle/funnel with lusol and worked the inner back and forth until the lusol came out the other end (with a load of dirt/rust etc - kept going until it was clean then changed the lusol for silicon oil and worked the inner back and forth until clean silicon oil came out. They have been fine for the past 3 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like it could work.... although I wont be able to get a funnel over the conduit, so I would be pouring the oils down a tube, (probably a pela oil Extractor tube).

presumably Lusol is a generic name... what would I buy, and where from.... ditto silicon oil?

Actually, all of the thoughts sound like they could work, so thanks to everyone who has responded.

Richard

 

[Martin_J]

There is a tool known as a hydraulic cable oiler - It grips the end of the cable using a selection of washers and then once filled with oil, you push the plunger and the oil is forced down the cable. Used to use one on motorbikes - think I've been lazy recently.

http://www.holdenmotorcycle.co.uk/viewPr...&group=095#

will work out next time how to make link look shorter.

You can click for an enlarged image and it actually brings up a diagram showing how it works!

 

[Martin_J]

On the other hand - I once had a stiff clutch cable on a car.

Oil didn't make any difference.

A few days later the clutch cable snapped /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It was a few frayed strands in the cable that were catching. Just a warning - frayed stands lead to more frayed strands leading to ...

 

[Skyva_2]

Are these cables in fact sheathed or just multi strand bare wire in a conduit?

 

[ShipsWoofy]

What is lusol?

 

[cliff]

Lusol is a penetrating / freeing oil available from good motor factors - much better than WD40 and/or plus-gas.

The silicon oil I used was spray-on sewing lubricant (punched a hole in the tin to get it out)
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[PBooth]

Hi, Wurth do a product called 'HHS 2000' which is a synthetic grease in an aerosol. the grease comes out as a thin liquid which thickens as the solvent evaporates. The extension tube on the aerosol can will let you squirt down the outer cable tubes, just work the cable back and forth as you squirt. HHS 2000 is perfect for use on boats on anything that needs lubricating such as hinges, engine controls etc. The grease is sticky, so don't use it near sails or fabrics, it even says 'seawater reistant' on the tin