vic008
Well-Known Member
Things to ponder? How far down into the water should it go? What are those cheaper all rope style like.? Need something so you can get out of the water after swimming .
Stern ladder considerations
- Thread starter vic008
- Start date
Yngmar
Well-Known Member
Far enough down so you can put a foot on the bottom rung from the water and climb up without undue effort. The measure for that seems to be more or less the length of a lower leg for most people. Should fold up all the way out of the water and be deployable by a person in the water. You'll also want two strong hand-holds nearby.
The exact design and installation depend very much on your transom shape.
I wouldn't want to deal with a rope ladder for regular swimming. Too unstable and you'll probably end up pinching fingers and toes. They're sold primarily as emergency kit.
If you want something cheap and not permanently attached, there's the hook-over type, which are lightweight and the hooks turn in so it can be stowed flat.
The exact design and installation depend very much on your transom shape.
I wouldn't want to deal with a rope ladder for regular swimming. Too unstable and you'll probably end up pinching fingers and toes. They're sold primarily as emergency kit.
If you want something cheap and not permanently attached, there's the hook-over type, which are lightweight and the hooks turn in so it can be stowed flat.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Ours extends between two and three rungs into the water. This is not quite enough to get feet onto but works well for knees. The arrangement is perfectly adequate for swimming off the boat in Greece but might be testing for MOB recovery in UK waters.
coopec
N/A
Vic
You haven't mention the size of yacht but if it is in the smaller range there's stacks of designs if you do a google (image) search (they might give you some ideas.) (Just re- read vyv_cox's post re MOB and maybe a lot of them wouldn't be too brilliant in that situation)
I'm building my own and have followed Ohm Shanti design as my yacht has a traditional transom.
In the event of a MOB mine will have a rope a swimmer can pull on to drop the ladder into the water.
I've been wondering how many rungs in the water myself. Now I know ....
Clive
You haven't mention the size of yacht but if it is in the smaller range there's stacks of designs if you do a google (image) search (they might give you some ideas.) (Just re- read vyv_cox's post re MOB and maybe a lot of them wouldn't be too brilliant in that situation)
I'm building my own and have followed Ohm Shanti design as my yacht has a traditional transom.
In the event of a MOB mine will have a rope a swimmer can pull on to drop the ladder into the water.
I've been wondering how many rungs in the water myself. Now I know ....
Clive
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VicS
Well-Known Member
Best part of a metre. Measure from about shoulder height to the height to which you can lift your foot. Not much less than that.
All rope things swing under the hull and you are left hanging almost horizontal with half of you under the boat,
Flat treads NOT round rungs, unless you swim with your shoes on.
It must be possible to release a fixed folding ladder from in the water if it is to be any use in an emergency.
VicS
Well-Known Member
My solution.... as yet untried
If the pictures appear
If the pictures appear
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SiteSurfer
Well-Known Member
Mine has 2 rungs in the water and it's not enough - we can just get a knee on and haul ourselves up, in a MOB situation it would be tricky if not impossible to negotiate.
The ladder is treaded and that has made a huge difference, the ones with just tubes are horrendous with bare feet.
This summer we added a loop over nylon ladder to extend the ladder which helped.. but as pointed out - they swing under the boat and require (again) some skill and patience to use.
IMHO - 3 rungs is minimum.
The ladder is treaded and that has made a huge difference, the ones with just tubes are horrendous with bare feet.
This summer we added a loop over nylon ladder to extend the ladder which helped.. but as pointed out - they swing under the boat and require (again) some skill and patience to use.
IMHO - 3 rungs is minimum.
Yngmar
Well-Known Member
Just measured (using my knee as reference - so numbers approximate). Ours is about 65cm below the waterline when deployed, plus 25cm above, with nearby handholds to pull oneself up. Both the crew and me have no problems climbing out (she also uses it to climb in). Here's a picture from a sistership. The rungs are flattened tube with a non-slip pattern pressed in, which works well. No, it never self-deployed or even made any noise, even in very rough weather. It's easy to reach up from the water and flip it down, although a good idea to keep ones face out of the way.
PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
When I had a Centaur (traditional transom) I had designed my own. It was hinged near the top and it could be folded over the top tube of the pushpit, which was closed. While sailing I would have a rope that reached around half-way down the transom such that a swimmer could reach it and could pull so that the ladder would unfold itself from the pushpit and drop down. Two short pieces of tube, with nylon pads, welded to the top part of the ladder kept it clear of the transom giving ample space for the feet. My initial mistake was to make the rungs of plain tubing but I solved that by wrapping them with lengths of double braid, cut from discarded genoa sheets.
Sandro
Well-Known Member
There are two long threads on the subject in the Drascombe Forum in theese days.
I often sail my little Drascombe Dabber Giulia singlehanded and need a swimming/safety ladder. (when younger, without any ladder, I could easily, from the water, grab the gunwale, hoist myself, turn and sit on it. No more so now).
I am happy with the ladder I bought and modified.
It is rigid, telescopic, it has three flat treads, does not take too much room as rigged stowed, it can be deploied by a MOB by pulling a monkey fist on a line that capsizes it over the gunwale and extends it outboard. It is rigged near a shroud that doubles as a high hand-hold.
It was covered in a PBO article. I don’t remember the issue.
Sandro
I often sail my little Drascombe Dabber Giulia singlehanded and need a swimming/safety ladder. (when younger, without any ladder, I could easily, from the water, grab the gunwale, hoist myself, turn and sit on it. No more so now).
I am happy with the ladder I bought and modified.
It is rigid, telescopic, it has three flat treads, does not take too much room as rigged stowed, it can be deploied by a MOB by pulling a monkey fist on a line that capsizes it over the gunwale and extends it outboard. It is rigged near a shroud that doubles as a high hand-hold.
It was covered in a PBO article. I don’t remember the issue.
Sandro
Rock Dodger
Well-Known Member
On coded yachts the ladder has to protrude 600mm in to the water. A folding rope ladder in a quick release bag is acceptable.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
How high can you lift your foot with wet weather gear and boots on?
PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
I can understand what you are getting at but have you ever tried to see for yourself "how high can you lift your foot with wet weather gear and boots on" especially when the water is cold and you are feeling exhausted? It is not a very good idea to keep your boots on when you go for an unplanned swim.
William_H
Well-Known Member
It seems to me the most important aspect is the hand holds up at a height where you can partially hoist yourself up aiding the foot work. From in the water you need to be able to pull with both arms at full arm stretch. As you rise up a a step you need further hand holds up higher. A gap in the stern rail is essential and can be part of this hand hold. Unfortunately this is not always easy but it is essential. In the end you must try your ladder and be prepared to redesign it. ol'will
coopec
N/A
A couple of things I have learned and will take on board:
• The treads must be flat
• The ladder must protrude well into the water (I'll work on a meter)
Of course I will ensure the ladder can be dropped by pulling a rope attached to a pin holding the retracted ladder in position.
Do I attached a pulley to the pushpit so that an injured/unconscious person can be hauled on board? (just in case). (At the stern the free-board would probably be around 4 ft)
Clive
• The treads must be flat
• The ladder must protrude well into the water (I'll work on a meter)
Of course I will ensure the ladder can be dropped by pulling a rope attached to a pin holding the retracted ladder in position.
Do I attached a pulley to the pushpit so that an injured/unconscious person can be hauled on board? (just in case). (At the stern the free-board would probably be around 4 ft)
Clive
PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
Much depends on the boat and the layout.
It is usual for the section that is immediately forward of the pushpit to which it is attached to be readily detached. This may be through a slip-hook or often through a simple lashing with thin line which can be cut through using the cockpit knife.
You will then have:
(1) a wide opening that is at deck level making the job of hauling the MOB back on board much easier,
(2) more space for people standing by side to help with the recovery,
(3) their weight could help to heel the boat so that the freeboard is decreased,
(4) you already have a handy tackle in place to hoist the MOB, That is the mainsheet, already attached to the boom and in a convenient location (that's assuming that the topping lift is man enough to take the weight and that the mainsheet is not attached mid-way along the boom; if not a spare halyard could be commandeered to provide more support at the location of the mainsheet attachment to the boom),
(5) one of the cockpit winches will help to decrease the effort of hoisting.
Basically much depends on the particular boat and how these points may be adapted. You are in a better position to know what is best for your situation than we.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I do not have a fixed ladder at the stern for boarding of MOB recovery as I would not like to attempt to board from the stern in any kind of seaway with the vertical movement of the transom.
I do have a stern solar mount with pulley blocks for lifting but mainly for dingy and outboard lifting in calm water.
My plan would be to use the boom and pulley blocks at a point along the boom that match the side entry gates I have this with the main sheet winch would allow SWNBO to lift me out of the water with little effort.
The plan to get the MOB to the side of the boat is to deploy a danbuoy and lifering with a long floating line attached to the boat. Then sail or motor around the MOB until he is surrounded and pulled to either side of the boat , then winch aboard the MOB through the normal side boarding gate.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Your reluctance to use the stern is traditional, but only valid when at sea. A lot of MOBs occur in harbour or in calm weather, so making it possible to use the stern seems sensible so long as it is not assumed to be the answer to all problems.
My stern ladder has four rungs. The top rung is at about the level of the surface of the sea, seen here when raised. It is missing a line, though it can be deployed from the water without. It is never tied up.
My stern ladder has four rungs. The top rung is at about the level of the surface of the sea, seen here when raised. It is missing a line, though it can be deployed from the water without. It is never tied up.
davidpbo
Well-Known Member
My ladder pulls out from under stern platform about 400mm above the water. it gives (I think) one rung level with the water and 3 underneath to a depth of about a meter. I wanted one I could easily step onto with wet weather gear on.
prv
Well-Known Member
The problem with this oft-quoted idea is that I’m already using the mainsheet, for its intended purpose of controlling the movement of the boom. Doubly so if the boom still has a sail set on it.
Pete