sticky
Well-Known Member
To those of you who have been helpful with advice. Thank you.
Stern Gland
- Thread starter sticky
- Start date
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
thanks for the voice of reason John - was thinking much the same myself.
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
imho fwiw he is a Professional Instructor
the problem, is one of maintenence that he should have some knowledge of.
ps fwiw i have 37 yrs of unbroken boat ownership i have maintained all my boats & fitted out many dating from mid 60s
[/ QUOTE ]
And it is clear that he does have some knowledge of it, certainly enough for a YI, ( I would guess... not being one).
Well done on the boat maintenance front.. but did you never have to ask for advice?
There are some things which we should know because of what we have done in life, along with the qualifications we have. However, we should remain smart/brave enough to know when we dont know something, or when we need some advice, even though we should really know the answer.
imho fwiw he is a Professional Instructor
the problem, is one of maintenence that he should have some knowledge of.
ps fwiw i have 37 yrs of unbroken boat ownership i have maintained all my boats & fitted out many dating from mid 60s
[/ QUOTE ]
And it is clear that he does have some knowledge of it, certainly enough for a YI, ( I would guess... not being one).
Well done on the boat maintenance front.. but did you never have to ask for advice?
There are some things which we should know because of what we have done in life, along with the qualifications we have. However, we should remain smart/brave enough to know when we dont know something, or when we need some advice, even though we should really know the answer.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I rest my case.
What case?
The guy is a experienced seaman, who asks for advice about a type of stern gland (traditional, so to many people common knowledge) and people cast aspersions.
You don't get to be a YM instructor if you are a numpty. The failure rate when I took my exam was 75%.
So the guy doesn't have in depth knowledge about traditional stern glands. So what? At least he had the courage to ask for advice. I repeat, being YMI isn't the same as being a marine engineer.
What case?
The guy is a experienced seaman, who asks for advice about a type of stern gland (traditional, so to many people common knowledge) and people cast aspersions.
You don't get to be a YM instructor if you are a numpty. The failure rate when I took my exam was 75%.
So the guy doesn't have in depth knowledge about traditional stern glands. So what? At least he had the courage to ask for advice. I repeat, being YMI isn't the same as being a marine engineer.
G
Guest
Guest
Sticky: keep asking the questions. It is those that definitely know the answer that are in trouble.
I've had many problems with the stern gland and recently did a lot of research on packing materials available now as opposed to when it was designed. They have changed. The heavily impregnated PTFE type have little compression and no room for grease. The PTFE suffers from a tendency to creep out. I have gone back to traditional none filled packings and found there is now more leeway in the adjustment range. There are some good arimide versions. Find out what they put in there.
Every bit of heat is wasted energy and more of the shaft polished away. About the temperature of a drinkable cup of tea is good.
I've had many problems with the stern gland and recently did a lot of research on packing materials available now as opposed to when it was designed. They have changed. The heavily impregnated PTFE type have little compression and no room for grease. The PTFE suffers from a tendency to creep out. I have gone back to traditional none filled packings and found there is now more leeway in the adjustment range. There are some good arimide versions. Find out what they put in there.
Every bit of heat is wasted energy and more of the shaft polished away. About the temperature of a drinkable cup of tea is good.
Danny
Well-Known Member
I agree. Nobody knows it all. How can he possibly have practical experience or in-depth knowledge of all the various types of equipment used on sailing boats? It's just not possible.
There are more dumb answers than dumb questions.
There are more dumb answers than dumb questions.
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
I am having similar problems.
Repacked My sterngland, twice!
First time the packing I ordered was too big, could only get 3 "rings" in the available space instead of 5 which came out.
Was advised to grease the assembley libraley on fitting and grease well with the manual greaser also.
No success, gland got hot grease and water emitting on running.
Repacked with packing which was ever so slightly thicker than the origional material 4 rings this time.
Similar result.
The gland "set up" is different to any I have had previously.
The packing is "stuffed" into a cylinder which is roughly two and a half inches deep which slides aft over the prop shaft and threads onto fitting that has the greaser receiver attached ,aft of that is the rubber tubular seal held in place with 4 stainless "jubilee" clips.
Not the 2 knut type if your still with Me!
Mobo with 105hp diesel.
Adjustement is made by tightening/slacking the cylinder (which has about a 2 inch spanner sized facility on the forward end of it,s anatomy onto the threaded part where the grease gets pumped into.
Can,t describe it any better!
Basically you stuff the packing into one bit slide it on to the other bit and tighten till you think its right!
Akward part is the location, like most things on boats, a big spanner is needed or "adjustable" plus the theaded part forward of the rubber sleeved seal has to be secured when tightening.
This situation leaves no room for"feel" as the stern gland is tightend.
How tight? is the question and how hot should the stern gland feel?
Previous glands I have experience of were allowed to drip periodically, this type shouldn,t Im informed.
What configuration is The How,s-your- father on your vessel?
I seem to be having the same heat prob with mine ie just about too hot to touch after an hour,s run. Test run Yesterday--Too hot for My liking + an ingress of briney to the tune of about 1pt.
Think I,m gonna have to strip and refit.
Some sages have told Me NOT to grease too much ,other advise has been opposite.
To insert the packing into My How,s-your-father I had to use a wooden dowel about 1 eigth thick to "probe" said wadding between the shaft and said How,s-your-father.
Do we have the same set up cos we,ver definately got the same problem ?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Repacked My sterngland, twice!
First time the packing I ordered was too big, could only get 3 "rings" in the available space instead of 5 which came out.
Was advised to grease the assembley libraley on fitting and grease well with the manual greaser also.
No success, gland got hot grease and water emitting on running.
Repacked with packing which was ever so slightly thicker than the origional material 4 rings this time.
Similar result.
The gland "set up" is different to any I have had previously.
The packing is "stuffed" into a cylinder which is roughly two and a half inches deep which slides aft over the prop shaft and threads onto fitting that has the greaser receiver attached ,aft of that is the rubber tubular seal held in place with 4 stainless "jubilee" clips.
Not the 2 knut type if your still with Me!
Mobo with 105hp diesel.
Adjustement is made by tightening/slacking the cylinder (which has about a 2 inch spanner sized facility on the forward end of it,s anatomy onto the threaded part where the grease gets pumped into.
Can,t describe it any better!
Basically you stuff the packing into one bit slide it on to the other bit and tighten till you think its right!
Akward part is the location, like most things on boats, a big spanner is needed or "adjustable" plus the theaded part forward of the rubber sleeved seal has to be secured when tightening.
This situation leaves no room for"feel" as the stern gland is tightend.
How tight? is the question and how hot should the stern gland feel?
Previous glands I have experience of were allowed to drip periodically, this type shouldn,t Im informed.
What configuration is The How,s-your- father on your vessel?
I seem to be having the same heat prob with mine ie just about too hot to touch after an hour,s run. Test run Yesterday--Too hot for My liking + an ingress of briney to the tune of about 1pt.
Think I,m gonna have to strip and refit.
Some sages have told Me NOT to grease too much ,other advise has been opposite.
To insert the packing into My How,s-your-father I had to use a wooden dowel about 1 eigth thick to "probe" said wadding between the shaft and said How,s-your-father.
Do we have the same set up cos we,ver definately got the same problem ?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
penfold
Well-Known Member
AFAIK trad packed sternglands should NOT get hot; warm to the touch at most. If it is too hot to touch the packing may become scorched, the grease will migrate and it will leak. It is possible the packing you have is the wrong size. I think Sticky ought to consult a different marine mechanic, and Kawasaki should find one to look at his how'syourfather.
Another point; packed sternglands are supposed to drip. If it isn't dripping, it's either too tight or you have one of the patent wonder packing materials in your sterngland.
cheers,
David
Another point; packed sternglands are supposed to drip. If it isn't dripping, it's either too tight or you have one of the patent wonder packing materials in your sterngland.
cheers,
David
G
Guest
Guest
It is not the case that they all leak. Mine certainly can not since there is a fully greased bearing on the other side. Followed by a external seal on the outside end.
If water gets that far I am in trouble.
If water gets that far I am in trouble.
G
Guest
Guest
Kawasaki: Look at figure 4:
http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm
or
http://www.fantasia35.com/images/packing-1.jpg
Sorry can not find any better pictures. But is it like figure 4? If you assume the prop is on the right and end of the shaft. The "gland follower bolt" is clamped in the rubber tube.
http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm
or
http://www.fantasia35.com/images/packing-1.jpg
Sorry can not find any better pictures. But is it like figure 4? If you assume the prop is on the right and end of the shaft. The "gland follower bolt" is clamped in the rubber tube.
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
Afficionados have told me mine should be dripless!
When I first had the boat did about 100 hrs and no drips.
When the drips arrived consulted the previous owner who declared no drips in 5 years.
"Just turned the greaser handle half a turn every few hours running "
His reply.
Agree with your diagnoses, symptom bears this out.
This is the story so far.
Repacked with generous amount of grease and new wadding.
Relaunched, ran motor in gear whilst roped to Dockside with slings still in place case of that sinking feeling, started to drip slightly after 10 mins.
Tightened how,s yer father half a turn no drips.
After 1 hours steeming more drips whole turn on HYF no drips 1hour steeming HYF hot to touch grease and water present. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Daern,t tighten it any more.
Think its back to the drawing board ,check packing size, re pack with less grease present and nudge HYF up in smaller doses.
Been trying to find a Man That Can . Able to talk to One on Friday If He says He can do it He,s hired! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
When I first had the boat did about 100 hrs and no drips.
When the drips arrived consulted the previous owner who declared no drips in 5 years.
"Just turned the greaser handle half a turn every few hours running "
His reply.
Agree with your diagnoses, symptom bears this out.
This is the story so far.
Repacked with generous amount of grease and new wadding.
Relaunched, ran motor in gear whilst roped to Dockside with slings still in place case of that sinking feeling, started to drip slightly after 10 mins.
Tightened how,s yer father half a turn no drips.
After 1 hours steeming more drips whole turn on HYF no drips 1hour steeming HYF hot to touch grease and water present. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Daern,t tighten it any more.
Think its back to the drawing board ,check packing size, re pack with less grease present and nudge HYF up in smaller doses.
Been trying to find a Man That Can . Able to talk to One on Friday If He says He can do it He,s hired! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
SolarNeil, thanks for that No 4 it is.
However, I went through the procedure as in the editorial (ish)
I,m beggining to think I may have used packing that is a smidge to big.
It was damned difficult to stuff into the area provided.
5 rings came out. They were pretty mangled by the time I extracted them.
The new stuff did look a tad fatter. I thought praps cos it was "new" could only get 4 rings in , leaving just enough thread proud to start a turn onto tother end.
Can,t see why 4 wont do for 5 if there,s no more room to shove any more in vut maybe that,s where I,ve gone wrong!!
Thanks again the Pic makes sense. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
However, I went through the procedure as in the editorial (ish)
I,m beggining to think I may have used packing that is a smidge to big.
It was damned difficult to stuff into the area provided.
5 rings came out. They were pretty mangled by the time I extracted them.
The new stuff did look a tad fatter. I thought praps cos it was "new" could only get 4 rings in , leaving just enough thread proud to start a turn onto tother end.
Can,t see why 4 wont do for 5 if there,s no more room to shove any more in vut maybe that,s where I,ve gone wrong!!
Thanks again the Pic makes sense. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
Bye the Bye , where did you get the Pic from?
G
Guest
Guest
Metric and imperial probably. The recommendation is to use the exact size of the inside minus the shaft. If it is already pushing then the adjustment is impossible.
Assume (THEORY ONLY) the shaft is turning at 1500rpm and you push the material against the shaft with the same force as needed to compress it to fit over the shaft. It will get hot all on its own. If the adjustment is to work then when the NUT is slack it should be cold.
Also, I met an Alaskan who had to dive inside his boat while at sea. He had over tightened the gland and the heated rubber tube had ripped into two pieces. Not recommended either.
Greased glands and water cooled glands are different. The packing material is key. Some of the stuff is very hard and wears the un hardened shaft. Other like the solid looking white PTFE just creep out. There are a lot of types but the grease should be the lub between the material and the shaft. A more open weave seems to be better in my stern tube which is just grease.
Assume (THEORY ONLY) the shaft is turning at 1500rpm and you push the material against the shaft with the same force as needed to compress it to fit over the shaft. It will get hot all on its own. If the adjustment is to work then when the NUT is slack it should be cold.
Also, I met an Alaskan who had to dive inside his boat while at sea. He had over tightened the gland and the heated rubber tube had ripped into two pieces. Not recommended either.
Greased glands and water cooled glands are different. The packing material is key. Some of the stuff is very hard and wears the un hardened shaft. Other like the solid looking white PTFE just creep out. There are a lot of types but the grease should be the lub between the material and the shaft. A more open weave seems to be better in my stern tube which is just grease.
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
Paragraph 2 (THEORY) makes sense.
I,m from Anglesey what does "use the exact size of the inside minus the shaft" mean ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Para 1. Get what you mean ref met/imp.
Bet the Alaskan had frozen nuts, even if it was Summer! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Don,t want to be The Anglesey Man duck diving in the bilge, thanks for the warning.
I,m from Anglesey what does "use the exact size of the inside minus the shaft" mean ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Para 1. Get what you mean ref met/imp.
Bet the Alaskan had frozen nuts, even if it was Summer! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Don,t want to be The Anglesey Man duck diving in the bilge, thanks for the warning.
Lizzie_B
Well-Known Member
Sticky, Hi there . Your stern gland should definitely not be hot. The compression nut should be backed off until there is about one drip per minute.
If it is running that hot there is a danger that it may cause scoring on your prop shaft.
If you still can't get it to drip after easing off the compression nut the most likely cause will be that the yard has used over sized packing or used the wrong sort of grease when they packed it.
As far as I am aware the only sort of sterngland packing that doesn't need to drip is Goretex GFE packing, but under no circumstances should this be greased!
Sounds to me like your yard just doesn't want to redo the job at their own expense! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
If it is running that hot there is a danger that it may cause scoring on your prop shaft.
If you still can't get it to drip after easing off the compression nut the most likely cause will be that the yard has used over sized packing or used the wrong sort of grease when they packed it.
As far as I am aware the only sort of sterngland packing that doesn't need to drip is Goretex GFE packing, but under no circumstances should this be greased!
Sounds to me like your yard just doesn't want to redo the job at their own expense! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
Thats confusing.
I,ve established that My gland does not drip.
However I have a greaser fitted.
Summats not right. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I,ve established that My gland does not drip.
However I have a greaser fitted.
Summats not right. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Lizzie_B
Well-Known Member
from your post it seems the PO was saying 'no drips - when he turned the greaser every few hours of running. This was how it was on the original Lizzie B.
Adjusted up to approx one drip per minute, half a turn on the greaser handle would see a few quick drips squeezed out and then drip free. In fact, if I had a long windless motor home and forgot the greaser, at the end of the trip I would just give half a turn on the greaser and the drips would stop and stay stopped for until I next used the engine.
My current boat has and American stern gland which does not have a greaser so as a result drips all the time (a real pain).
This seems a very common arrangement in older American boats, and a lot of my US sailing friends have therefore gone over to the Goretex packing, which although only advertised as 'virtually' drip free, has been found to be drip free in the sailing yacht application where the stresses are relatively low compared to a power boat.
5 rings of packing sounds an awful lot. Try www.catalina38.org and click on specs, then on stern gland and coupling assembley /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Adjusted up to approx one drip per minute, half a turn on the greaser handle would see a few quick drips squeezed out and then drip free. In fact, if I had a long windless motor home and forgot the greaser, at the end of the trip I would just give half a turn on the greaser and the drips would stop and stay stopped for until I next used the engine.
My current boat has and American stern gland which does not have a greaser so as a result drips all the time (a real pain).
This seems a very common arrangement in older American boats, and a lot of my US sailing friends have therefore gone over to the Goretex packing, which although only advertised as 'virtually' drip free, has been found to be drip free in the sailing yacht application where the stresses are relatively low compared to a power boat.
5 rings of packing sounds an awful lot. Try www.catalina38.org and click on specs, then on stern gland and coupling assembley /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Danny
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
a lot of my US sailing friends have therefore gone over to the Goretex packing
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know if this was the same stuff but I found a packing replacement kit in West Marine which consisted of some waxy looking green sticks (of PTFE, I think) and some special lubricant. The idea is to use this instead of the traditional packing and it should produce a dripless seal that runs cool. It worked fine for me for a season (but then I re-engined the boat and changed the propshaft and fitted a PSS seal at the same time).
a lot of my US sailing friends have therefore gone over to the Goretex packing
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know if this was the same stuff but I found a packing replacement kit in West Marine which consisted of some waxy looking green sticks (of PTFE, I think) and some special lubricant. The idea is to use this instead of the traditional packing and it should produce a dripless seal that runs cool. It worked fine for me for a season (but then I re-engined the boat and changed the propshaft and fitted a PSS seal at the same time).
G
Guest
Guest
"use the exact size of the inside minus the shaft"
Means: measure the inside of the big nut that you fit the packing into. i.e the largest measurement inside. Then subtract from this the shaft diameter.
Then divide by 2 because of the 2 sides. This will give the distance from the inside of the big nut to the side of the shaft.
In a perfect world there would be no slack or compression of the packing when slid on to the shaft. But as you tighten the nut it will compress and bulge sideways to lightly contact the shaft.
Means: measure the inside of the big nut that you fit the packing into. i.e the largest measurement inside. Then subtract from this the shaft diameter.
Then divide by 2 because of the 2 sides. This will give the distance from the inside of the big nut to the side of the shaft.
In a perfect world there would be no slack or compression of the packing when slid on to the shaft. But as you tighten the nut it will compress and bulge sideways to lightly contact the shaft.