steering through lumpy bits- whats the best way?

phanakapan

phanakapan

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Forgive my ignorance but until you ask you don't know, eh?Came from Eastbourne to Brighton on Sunday- F6 on the nose wind against tide, in hindsight should have waited until weather was better. It was very lumpy indeed. It was the first time I had ever sailed in these conditions, and I found that if I steered straight up the waves, we slammed down the other side really hard; taking the waves on the side they broke over us, made it extremely tippy and frightening; so I ended up sort of wiggling and zig-zaging keeping a vague approximation of a course. Was motoring with some sail out to steady her, but when we were rounded up by strong gusts, or to deal with extra big waves, sail flogged- ended up shredding jib. Now I know I did lots of things wrong (setting off in first place, not noticing jib was getting torn, you name it I got it wrong) but what is the best way of steering a dumpy little boat through/around/over the lumps? just in case I am foolish enough to find myself in that situation again!
 
Feel her.... let her find her own way over them, just guide rather than steer.....its a good feeling... I find the most comfortable is when the sea is on the windward front quarter so you gently guide her up into the wind over the wave, and slightly off the wind down the back of it... but its a gentle 'guide', rather than a purposeful turn..... best to avoid a sea breaking on the beam whenever you can though.... next time you're out in a F5 it'll seem like a pussycat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Yes, you did the right thing, steering for the seas. You soon find out what the boat wants to do. It makes no difference to the course made good. You will have noticed the difference in wind strength in the troughs as against the heads of the seas. One school of thought says that you should bear away on the crest of each wave and luff up to the next crest, which is pretty much right for my boat, a heavy displacement type, but boats do vary. You don't want to be caught dead in the water on the crest in a light displacement type.

It's advisable (as you have found!) not to let sails flog at all, or they wreck themselves.
 
Thanks, NAS,- thinking about it that's what I ended up doing because it felt most comfortable, but I didn't know if it was 'right' or not.
 
Best bit is once you've got over the fear of the boat not coping, and realised that she's fine, then you can start to actually enjoy it....... and the pleasant feeling once safely tied up of having made the passage, having salt encrusted on your face, and a warm glow from the sun and wind burn that you hadn't noticed during the day...... for me thats a big part of the pleasure of sailing... enjoy!
 
Actually I did have a great time! In spite of the mistakes- which included not listening to the advice from our neighbour on the pontoon in Eastbourne, whosaid "going to Brighton? here's our passage plan- we're putting the kettle on and going later". Also to show off my brand new Dubarries, I tucked my oilie trousers into them- and forgot to untuck them when getting very wet hence boots filled up with water. How stoopid.
 
It's the sort of thing where theorising about it from an armchair is fairly useless - you just have to experiment to see what feels best out there. Different boats beahave in different ways and in different wave patterns.

Now to contradict myself by theorising a bit. One rule of thumb that I find useful: generally a sailing boat will do much better in strong winds when sailing rather than motoring. There is a temptation to use the engine + mainsail to point as close upwind to the target as possible. But engines can't really cope in these conditions. It is usually better/faster/more comfortable to bear away slightly and sail her, even if the engine is left on to give extra boost. Obviously one should reef and flatten the sails before doing this (easier said than done, but nevertheless...) It will also probably mean you're not taking the waves so hard on the nose, so the motion is less abrupt in stopping the boat.
 
You seemed to have found the way eventually but I do have a question as to what sail you had in use. Having accepted the fact that you are not going to sail upwind too well with a chunky bilge keeler, motor sailing was the best option as you decided.

IMHO NEVER motorsail in any wind with any jib out only with the mainsail. Heading straight into the wind/waves is not quick or comfy, so motorsailing and tacking at about 30 degs to the wind might be best, whilst weaving a way between and over the waves. There is a danger if you use the jib as well of heeling too far which can occasionally cause oil starvation in the engine if the boat lurches/heels and the oil pump pick up sucks air momentarily. We had this happen years back with a Bukh 10hp engine and only noticed it because the oil pressure alarm would go off, then looked at the pressure gauge and saw it was fluctuating in time with the lurches! It will also be quieter with no jib out, better visibility and no risk of damaging it.

Robin
 
Hi Robin. Started out with no sail; then pulled out some main, felt more comfortable but reaaly heavy on the tiller, pulled out a bit of headsail until she balanced better; then realised (too late) that we were damaging the head so took it in and played about with more/less main until it balanced again.
Did try sailing/ tacking but port tack taking us too much towards land, starboard straight out to sea, hence the motor.
 
The motor is very understandable on the Macwester in such conditions! I had friends with one some while back and the club we belonged to then had Macwester #1 as well as 5 or 6 others that had lots of mods done to them, some written up in PBO too. Amongst other things I remember they shortened the mainsail foot, fitted feet to the keels to fair them in and add some depth and faired in the prop aperture.

But F6 against the wind and wind against tide is bad in any boat, FWIW these days we avoid it where possible and that is with a 41 foot cruiser/racer with nearly 7ft draft fin keel, so that might put it in perspective. The boat (and us) in reality are quite capable of going upwind under sail in F8 but do we want to from choice? Hell no!

Robin
 
I got into those conditions last summer by lack of foresight. I didn't fancy standing by the mast to put the main sail up as it was like riding a bucking bronco, so we motored. I then tried putting out a hankerchief of furled jib to steady the boat and found that it sailed quite well sufficiently into the wind to get us home. The engine was switched off and we had a much more pleasant sail. As you say, we all live and learn.
 
your motor - in/outboard? if o/b then read on.
as posted above with regard to engine oil levels -aye.
If you got just your outboard and no sails, in the chop the cooling intake for the motor will inevitably be sucking air -presuming water cooled type, if air cooled, disregard.-
when the bow pitches in, as the stern lifts. you would probably hear the blades cavitating, which is also bad news.
once again as above, motoring with your main up is purposeful but too much cloth will cause excessive heel, which will 1- slow you down. 2 - liable to twist to weather - pulling tiller hard fight. 3.-crap yourself when an unobserved bow wave from a distant freighter washes in from the lee.
reefing the main to suit conditions will 1.- stabilise the pitching action, keeping her 'more' level fore & aft. ,happy outboard.
2.- having less heel she will be lighter on the stick and far more responsive, you would then really enjoy that 'feel' they are on about.3.- go faster, get to safer water quicker.
As you use your boat more in varying conditions you will soon 'feel' when its time to reduce cloth, keep at it.
Now my tuppence worth on the waveriding thing, sorry,
beam on = bad, straight up the face........hmmm, think slap happy, rig tension, gear/crew below.
imagine 'essing' your way towards your next mark.
heading up slighty as you climb the green wall, bearing away slightly as you slide down the back of the wave.
Yes concentrate at first but soon( as little as a few minutes) you may find you do the oneness bit and quite naturally follow the rythym of the boat/ wave interaction.
So often when teaching this exact thing we would engage the 'pinch faced with concentration and fear' helm in quite mundane conversation about ? their favourite singer car meal?
In no time they would be chatting away and looking round, steering 'thru the seat of their pants, generally relaxing and sailing sub-conciously.
Sorry to drag on but sometimes people here dont explain why, just the dont do bit, when some asks for help/advice they should be given some depth to back up the theory,

ok thickskin mode is ........on in 5,4,3,......GO.
 
Tough old Macwesters can take more than most boats, but weather helm and constant rounding up can be a real pain. If your Macwester 26 still has her mainsheet taken to a horse abaft the cockpit, put a big ringbolt on the cockpit floor ( with a sizeable backing pad ) about 2 feet aft of the companionway and take your mainsheet to that and to an old reefing claw vertically above, on the boom.Makes all the difference,although it gets a bit in the way till you get used to it.
 
wow /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, now your thinking like a skipper, well done. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Skippers alway question,
was this OK?,
did I do it right?
could I improve it?


/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Hi Philippa.

Sounds a bit like the passage we had up to Selsey the morning after we met you in Brighton. No, yours sounds worse on reflection. We motorsailed with just the main and made about 30 degrees off the wind. Not quite as much wind as you had but only 200m visibility at first. Sue was sick on that trip and she is usually as tough as old boots. Did you go to sea that morning? You were still there when we left.

Hard to explain how I steer in those conditions. I have often noticed that once I am into the rhythm I am applying a small amount of helm just before the boat wants it rather that reacting after the wave has hit. If we are not heeling too much I sit up on the coaming for a better view of the waves ahead. It can be cold and wet up there though.
 
The mainsheet does go down to a traveller 2' aft of the companionway. Trouble is with my Mac is she has add-on inmast reefing, so the sail shape is nearly always poo; also the reefing line is always getting stuck so we have to go up to the mast to free it which defeats the object of lines to the cockpit. Hi Dave- I never did get round to thanking you fro that lovely bottle of wine and it was great to meet your family. Black Rose left at about 7pm and motored all the way to Cowes- the skipper didn't fancy what you encountered! Yes, I was sitting up high on the back- and got extremely wet! Quite exhilarating- I'm afraid I was rather selfish and hogged the helm, and was promptly sick when I let Kevin have a go. We had a freind along with us who amazingly stayed down below, just popping up to take photos- he thought it was great!
 
An Option - Use What you have.

If I read you correctly - thumping upwind into a lumpy one with a bit of a breeze.

Say about 20 knots or more ?

Put two reefs in the main and motorsail.

Under engine only you will make 3 knots into the wind.
Under sail only you will make 6 knots but in the wrong direction.

Now meld the two.
Use a small main and motor BUT get the boat at an angle so you get drive from the main sail AND the engine.

If you have to tack then do so. And you probably will and should.

If you sail only you will tack through 120 degrees. With this method you will tack through about 60 degrees.

We call it "Motor-Cheating" but it gets you there.

The key point is to get the boat at an angle so the sail AND engine are driving you.

Then just tack on, taking the waves at a comfortable angle.
 
I also am experimenting with add-on in mast reefing on my macWester 27,a Facnor system I bought from another forumite. Fitted it all (mast down ) earlier in the season, but due to one thing another have NOT YET RAISED SAIL THIS YEAR !!!!! Hoping for great things. Shorter foot on mainsail will move C of E forward,lessening weather helm and stop her `screwing round `
 
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