Steering systems for bigger boats

coopec

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,211
Visit site
The final posts from the thread "Engine room layout - Roberts Mauritius (Center Cockpit)" relate to Steering systems. I certainly found the posts extremely helpful and would be to anyone installing a new system or an upgrade. The posts are complementary and all raised highly relevant considerations.

I like the system which I think is called the "Push/Pull"? Anyhow, it is the one with "very large Bowden cable that can be routed freely as long as the minimum bend radius is respected"

(Gee you wouldn't want to order it a bit short would you?)

Is that system suitable for an autopilot? I think an autopilot requires a gearing of 5 turns lock to lock?
 
coopec said:
I like the system which I think is called the "Push/Pull"? Anyhow, it is the one with "very large Bowden cable that can be routed freely as long as the minimum bend radius is respected"
Click to expand...

You'd have difficulty matching that up to your existing pedestal, which is designed for cable steering. Use simple cables, and you'll have no problems. Make sure you use 7x19 wire, not 7x7 which isn't flexible enough. You can run cables through conduits to help with routing. There's lots of very good guidance on Edson's website, in particular the Planning guide - http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf

The Edson website has other documents listed which you might find useful - http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/techsupport.php
 
I'm going to go back and have another look at your posts AND I'll have a look at the Whitlock instructions that came with the pedestal
Tranoma said "The pedestal you have is for cable steering. Now made by Lewmar and you can get technical information and different layouts on their site.
Obviously I am going to use cable steering then because I am not going to complicate matters unecessarily.
(I'll have a look at the Edson site and Lewmar as well)
 
Yes, just follow the Lewmar installation instructions - The Edson system is similar, but as you have a Lewmar/whitlock pedestal perhaps better to stick with that. There are essentially 3 different ways of installing an autopilot. The most common is a ram driving the quadrant or a separate arm on the rudder stock (which you can buy from Jefa or machine your own). Alternatives are a cable drive such s an Octopus system or the Lewmar electric motor which sits at the bottom of the pedestal. The first two have the advantage of providing an alternative means of steering if you cable system fails. All of them of course require electronics to operate.
 
pvb said:
You'd have difficulty matching that up to your existing pedestal, which is designed for cable steering.
Click to expand...

Nope - the "Bowden cable" system is mine, and at the pedestal end it just looks like normal cable steering. The difference is that instead of having various sheaves and blocks that must be lined up with straight runs in between them, below the pedestal the two cables disappear into two black snakes that guide them in gentle curves through the engine bay, cockpit locker, under the stern cabin bunk, and then into the space where the quadrant lives. From the point where they emerge from the sheaths, the cables attach to the quadrant again just like conventional cables.

The cables themselves are normal 7x19 stainless and can be pulled out for inspection and replaced if necessary.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the steering system specifically, but you can see the cables descending from the pedestal and entering the tubes in this slightly blurry shot of the engine bay:



Pete
 
coopec said:
I think an autopilot requires a gearing of 5 turns lock to lock?
Click to expand...

Any pilot drive with stipulations like that is obviously designed to work on the wheel / pedestal end of the system. Having used both on the same boat, a much better choice is one that operates directly on the rudder stock via its own short tiller. This avoids any backlash there might be in the cable system, giving the pilot a more direct input which it seems to prefer. It also means that if the hand system fails due to a cable snapping, or falling off a sheave somewhere or jumping out of its track on the quadrant, you can instantly regain control by switching to the autopilot.

Pete
 
prv said:
Nope - the "Bowden cable" system is mine, and at the pedestal end it just looks like normal cable steering. The difference is that instead of having various sheaves and blocks that must be lined up with straight runs in between them, below the pedestal the two cables disappear into two black snakes that guide them in gentle curves through the engine bay, cockpit locker, under the stern cabin bunk, and then into the space where the quadrant lives. From the point where they emerge from the sheaths, the cables attach to the quadrant again just like conventional cables.

The cables themselves are normal 7x19 stainless and can be pulled out for inspection and replaced if necessary.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the steering system specifically, but you can see the cables descending from the pedestal and entering the tubes in this slightly blurry shot of the engine bay:



Pete
Click to expand...

Pete there are 2 kinds of Bowden cable. There is a push/pull type, single cable in a conduit, (I have this on my outboard motor on my Mobo). Then there is one like yours the is pull/pull that as 2 cables both in tension but can be guided through conduits or around pulleys which is not really a "Bowden cable"

The push/pull Bowden cable is the type used on Morse/Teleflex engine controls.
 
Rogershaw said:
Pete there are 2 kinds of Bowden cable. There is a push/pull type, single cable in a conduit, (I have this on my outboard motor on my Mobo). Then there is one like yours the is pull/pull that as 2 cables both in tension
Click to expand...

Sure. But Coopec was referring specifically to my system (even though he misidentified the name) because he was quoting my words from the other thread.

The push-pull type as used for many outboards is no good for him because he has a pedestal designed for cable steering.

Pete
 
prv said:
Nope - the "Bowden cable" system is mine, and at the pedestal end it just looks like normal cable steering. The difference is that instead of having various sheaves and blocks that must be lined up with straight runs in between them, below the pedestal the two cables disappear into two black snakes that guide them in gentle curves through the engine bay, cockpit locker, under the stern cabin bunk, and then into the space where the quadrant lives. From the point where they emerge from the sheaths, the cables attach to the quadrant again just like conventional cables.

The cables themselves are normal 7x19 stainless and can be pulled out for inspection and replaced if necessary.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the steering system specifically, but you can see the cables descending from the pedestal and entering the tubes in this slightly blurry shot of the engine bay:



Pete
Click to expand...

Well, the post I responded to said "Push/Pull", which, as I pointed out, won't work easily with the existing pedestal. I'm afraid I hadn't read the other thread so had no idea what you might or might not have suggested somewhere else. In any case, the OP seems quite prone to changing his mind. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry I'm confusing everyone with my posts.
Roger clarified my thinking when he said "Pete there are 2 kinds of Bowden cable. There is a push/pull type, single cable in a conduit,
I've just found a perfect article which puts Steering systems in a nutshell. I realise I have some research to do before I can talk intelligently but I have kids/Grand kids here today .

Steering system roundup
Chain and wire system:[/B] Most ocean and coastal sailing boats however are fitted with wheel steering. The most common wheel steering is the chain and wire system. This is a fairly simple system consisting of a wheel with a chain sprocket on the helm shaft. This in turn drives a chain which is attached to a wire cable at each end. The cable is passed through the boat using pulleys until it reaches the quadrant which is mounted on the rudder shaft. As the wheel is turned it will pull one end of the cable and the other end follows. This then pulls the quadrant in the direction needed to turn the boat.

[B]Cable conduit:[/B] Another common variation of this is a cable conduit system. This system uses the chain and cable but instead of the pulleys the cable is run in a flexible conduit. Conduit systems are often used when the cable runs from helm to quadrant are short as the friction of the conduit becomes greater with long runs. Sometimes a combination of the conduit and pulley system is used on longer runs such as installations on center cockpit boats. The conduit is used to get the cable through the cabin and they continued through the bilge on using pulleys.

The full article can be found
http://www.oceannavigator.com/Web-Exclusives-2015/Steering-system-roundup/
 
Last edited:
coopec said:
I've just found a perfect article which puts Steering systems in a nutshell.

Steering system roundup
Chain and wire system:

Cable conduit
Click to expand...

Yep - your pedestal is suited for either of those types. They're quite similar really, it's just a question of how easy the lead is from wheel to rudder.

Pete
 
Rogershaw said:
That's it in a nut shell

Its a matter of whats most convenient for your boat and you.
Click to expand...

Understanding that has cleared up a lot of misunderstanding in my mind.
As you say there is no one right or wrong system for my yacht..

Thank you guys
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top