Steel Boats - any thoughts/help please ?

Loggo

Loggo

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We are thinking seriously of upsizing and due to severe budgetary constraints find ourselves looking at late 70s/early 80s Cruisers around 30 feet. We are attracted to several Dutch Steel bodied craft - are there any points we should be watching for? Does anyone have any good or bad tales to tell ??
 
A big question. We went looking for circa 30ft steel boats and found a variety on the market, most of them Dutch and old (nothing wrong with either). Initial looking was all in the name of research, and then we tripped over Ex Libris. A 27ft (at waterline) steel cruiser that ticked all boxes but draught (4ft). We bought her though, and we are delighted.

The previous boat was a well cared for Freeman 24. Much loved.

The steel boat is much more solid and feels like a true trooper. I love her to bits. Quite heavy to drive but has a lovely presence.

I think we approached this the right way. We went looking, and looking and looking. We had an idea of what we wanted (good and bad) and were prepared to compromise. So much so that we knew when we had found the right one. The survey was suprisingly stressful as the engineer looks for different things on a steel boat. But I wouldn't (and didn't) get hung up over it.

Happy hunting.
 
The frames in steel boats are critical, problem is not all areas can be inspected.

If a hidden frame fails the access to repair is to cut away the exterior of the hull, a very expensive exercise.

So look for fresh paint on the internals that be hiding rust stains running down from areas that can not be inspected.

In other words, if you find a steel boat that has not been painted inside for some years you could be on a winner.

Also be warned, many steel boats can be wet inside due to high rates of condensation.

Hope this helps.
 
A little wary.

I too considered a steel boat for inland use, but a fair bit newer.
Pheran will be able to contribute/ correct here, but I too did quite a lot of research.
1. Look on one of the Dutch websites and you will see just how many makes there are. www.botentekoop.nl is an excellent example. I am sure you will be able to get the idea even in Dutch. Many smaller yards will produce a very small number of boats each year. Some will be excellently made and others less so.
2. Age counts!! Pre the use of Epoxy paints, steel boats were more prone to rust. Not sure when they changed but I would guess well after the period you are considering. So rust will be an issue. Teak laid decks were very popular but when the caulking failed, the moisture got through to the steel decks underneath and can rust through.

My thoughts:
Steel post epoxy paints and with a known yard are excellent boats and will give superb service.
Pre epoxy paints I personally would stay with plastic. I know you can get osmosis but to my mind there are fewer concerns with an older plastic boat than an older steel one.

Keep us posted as to which route you decide on.
 
I had an old Dutch steel boat that, probably, used to be an old fishing boat in it's past life going by the evidence of former engine beds, toilet sea-cocks and so on before becoming a cruiser. Aged around early 60's a design fault in the cabin top had resulted in the deck rusting through all round the cabin opening, allowing water to get into the bilge which then rusted the hull plating from the inside.

By the time I got my hands on it the bottom had been completely over-plated professionally but not the decks! I did the decks which then solved the problem.

One thing about steel is how easy it is to simply weld a plate over the existing, also how bitumen is a good bottom paint as well.

However, steel does require a lot of looking after, I'd agree with the previous poster and say get a plastic boat. Osmosis has never sunk a boat of any age yet, and plastic will not rust!
 
Why differentiate between Steel and GRP?

Both have issues, both advantages, why limit your choice of good vessels?
 
No Regrets - with my helmsmanship I need all the help I can get.
Cliveshep - Dutch prices seem v attractive. What are the issues with bringing one of these beauties accross the North Sea ?
 
Loggo said:
No Regrets - with my helmsmanship I need all the help I can get.
Cliveshep - Dutch prices seem v attractive. What are the issues with bringing one of these beauties across the North Sea ?
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No idea - mine was already here. I do know that years ago the Dutch Government subsidised the sale of what they considered to be uneconomical cargo boats, the smaller or older ones, paying a premium to their owners to scrap or sell for pleasure use, preferably outside the system. In those days the boats had often been in the family for several generations and were home so well maintained and lovingly preserved, varnished, cleaned etc. However, I suspect that source has pretty much dried up now with a Dutch "barge" almost a collector's item and much sought after, witness the scads of new "lookalikes" e3ing turned out by British yards.
 
Ignoring the historical impact etc etc...

In the same way as traditional Mini's and Beetles are slowly dying, and being replaced by newer more efficient designs, I suppose the newer 'Dutch' barges are flourishing for the same reasons!

Sadly, old things wear out.

Most really old boats are like Trig's Broom in 'Only fools and Horses'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts5hNx85Hg0

I think recreating these old designs is good. It keeps the spirit of the old designs alive, but makes them far more appealing to mainstream users, and the running costs far more sensible.
 
Interestingly, wood, while deteriorating at a greater rate, is the one material which can be easily replaced unlike GRP or Steel. I could of course just be talking up my own book.

Methinks No Regrets' scrappage scheme approach to anything older than his boat is a tad unfair. I assume like anything steel, grp and wooden boats should always be bought on condition. Although the epoxy paint point sounds like a good one to keep in mind. But then I have an original Fiat 500 - I guess I should chop it in on a new one with an iPod hifi.
 
Loggo said:
Dutch prices seem v attractive. What are the issues with bringing one of these beauties accross the North Sea ?
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The two main issues are transport and finance.

Will you sail it across yourself or get it transported by road?

Finance (apart from having enough money!) really means checking out ownership and VAT issues. Any boat built after 1987(?) needs to have proof of VAT paid status.

Dutch brokers are usually very good and speak excellent English so they are a good source of advice.

When you see the cost of keeping a boat in Holland you might consider that option as well !!!

The other consideration is how easy (or not) it will be to carry out any work required to meet the Boat Safety Scheme if you intend mooring on waterways which require it.
 
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I certainly wasn't talking scrappage!

The new 500 is great, but not the Blue&me which doesn't accept iPods unless formatted in Windows MP3 format. Totally nasty, but a lovely little car.

The old 500 was not so nice though was it? (I had a few too...) grumbly little things with no heating and a horrid ride!

GRP is very easily repaired, a patch in a holed hull costing only a couple of hundred to repair, and year-by-year maintenance virtually non existent!

Wood, as lovely as it is, takes constant attention does it not?
 
Sooner they make disposable boats the better. Use it chuck it away and get a new one out the bag. no maintenance, no washing, no problems.
 
Loggo said:
No Regrets - with my helmsmanship I need all the help I can get.
Cliveshep - Dutch prices seem v attractive. What are the issues with bringing one of these beauties accross the North Sea ?
Click to expand...
Hi Loggo
I wouldn't dissent from any of the advice given above especially miket's points about paint and teak decks.

But when it comes to a question of getting any purchase back to the UK (assuming you bought in Holland), I would put any thought of sailing it back right out of your head. Dutch steel boats are of 'knikspant' ie hard chine construction which means they are more than a little roly-poly in any sort of sea. Coupled with that, if you attempted to come straight across from Holland ie the North Sea, you would be facing a non-stop open-sea trip in excess of 100 miles which @ 6 knots would take at least 17 hours. There are so many issues associated with such a trip that it is a no-brainer, especially as it would be undertaken in a 30ft boat of which you would have little or no experience. If you were determined and had loads of time (if only to wait for a weather window), the only vaguely safe route would be down through the south of Holland, across the Westerschelde, down through the Belgian canals via Gent and Brugges, into Nieuwpoort, down the Belgian/French coast to around Dunkerque, then across to Dover. Then work your way up the English coast to wherever you want to be. I've done that route but it certainly takes time.

So road transport is, IMHO, the only viable option and this would need to be factored into your budget. I am guessing that this would be in the order of £1K, based on the £500 I'm paying to have a boat transported to the Thames from Norfolk, a 2-day job. All depends whether the haulier can get a return load etc.

I've a number of more detailed comments which I wont take up space on here with and bore the lads to tears so have sent you a PM.
 
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I brought a 7m Motorsloop back from Sneek in Freisland last year (on my personal account) which was on a trailer and paid £1000.

To get an idea of cost call Jenny at Thames Valley Interboat, they bring our Aquanauts back from Holland and move our stock to boat shows etc.
 
" wood, while deteriorating at a greater rate, is the one material which can be easily replaced unlike GRP or Steel."

Repairs to GRP and steel can probably be be done at economical rates by semi skilled labour,the problem with wood is the rapidly decreasing pool of people able to carry out a repair.
Suspect there are long waiting lists for yards able to restore classic boats and prices will reflect this.
 
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