Starting battery problem

[baylabayla3288]

When I bought my current boat 3 years ago, a Ferretti 480 with the 12 litre MAN 610 hp engines from 2001, 4 new batteries were installed replacing the old batteries as originally configured. My boat has a 12 volt system and the batteries should be divided in 2 banks, 2 for starting the engines and 2 for services. The genset has its own dedicated battery. The batteries are of the type FIAMM 180 APC, CCA 1000 A EN. 12V, 180 AH each.

Everything worked fine untill early this summer when I discovered that the batteries had been wrongly wired so that they have all been connected permanently in parallel. After separating the batteries in 2 banks, 2+2, the engines will not turn enough to start. Only after switching on the temporary parallel switch the engines will start normally. This is the way we have started the engines during our summer cruise and there has not been any other problems.

I have done some initial troubleshooting including load testing each battery with a battery tester. It turned out that the batteries are in good health. I'm now thinking that maybe the new batteries have too low power rating or CCA. I have not found the MAN specs for a 12 V system so if any of you have this info it would be great. Any other advice on what to look forr much appreciated.

 

[Portofino]

They are 24 v the starter motors !

If I read your post correctly you have unwired the 24 to 12 hence needing the pararell button to turn them over - eek !

I have nearly the same 2876 le 401,s from 2003 700 hp,s and had new bats same as yours in 2014 summer justB4 I got the boat
Mines all 24 V

 

[jrudge]

Parallel would not increase the voltage - series would.

Given the engine size the first thing to confirm is that the system is indeed 12v. To my untrained eye I would assume it was 24v.

Drop testing batteries is hit and miss. Our s65 had issues. Drop test on Bosche tester all ok. Take off charge. Leave a normal load on for 2 hours. volt test each. 2 dud.

Assuming the wiring change has not done something then I would assume you have dud batteries.

 

[Mike k]

http://www.zbattery.com/Connecting-Batteries-in-Series-or-Parallel

 

[baylabayla3288]

Thank you for the replys! It has a 12 V system (strangely) and the batteries have not been connected in series but in paralell. Now when I put all 4 in parallel as said, it starts nicely on 12 Volts. I know that when the yard installed the new batteries 3 years ago someone at the yard left a pump on without shorepower connected, when I came to the boat the following morning the Voltage was down to around 9 Volts idle. So it could be the batteries after all. If they were left to deplete too deeply and since they were cabled all paralell all 4 would have suffered. Ah capacity seems ok power output in practice not whatever the tester is saying. But in theory shouldn't 2 x 1000 CCA capacity be enough to start these beasts?

 

[[2068]]

If each battery is indeed producing anything like 300 amps or so, then it should be enough.
But if the batteries have been regularly discharged to 9v, you might be very disappointed as to how much current they are able to deliver now.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

If each battery is indeed producing anything like 300 amps or so, then it should be enough.
But if the batteries have been regularly discharged to 9v, you might be very disappointed as to how much current they are able to deliver now.

Yep, and three years life for domestics that are permanently on charge between occasional massive discharges sound about right.

 

[baylabayla3288]

If each battery is indeed producing anything like 300 amps or so, then it should be enough.
But if the batteries have been regularly discharged to 9v, you might be very disappointed as to how much current they are able to deliver now.

Thanks for the comment. They were only once down to 9V, after that allways kept topped up with shore power. Can a one time event destroy these heavy duty led acid batteries?

 

[[2068]]

Thanks for the comment. They were only once down to 9V, after that allways kept topped up with shore power. Can a one time event destroy these heavy duty led acid batteries?

Battery life / capacity is complex.
A one time discharge to 9v won't help.
But also, keeping them permanently topped up also does not help.
Discharging to 75% or so followed by really quite high rates of recharge (from a "battery conditioner") or alternator can get good results, as it slightly de-sulphates the plates of a traditional lead acid battery.

On my comparatively small D4-260's (3.7L engines) I have four batteries, two sets of two wired in parallel, 12v.
Two are only used to start one engine. The other two start the second engine, and also power the domestics.
All batteries are 110Ah / 1000 CCA.

Can you find out what the original battery configuration was meant to be?

.

 

[baylabayla3288]

Parallel would not increase the voltage - series would.

Given the engine size the first thing to confirm is that the system is indeed 12v. To my untrained eye I would assume it was 24v.

Drop testing batteries is hit and miss. Our s65 had issues. Drop test on Bosche tester all ok. Take off charge. Leave a normal load on for 2 hours. volt test each. 2 dud.

Assuming the wiring change has not done something then I would assume you have dud batteries.

Thank you for the comment, I did actually double check the voltage today and the labeling of the alternators say 12 volts, I assume the starters cannot be other than 12 volts then although I could not find the labelling on them. All other electrical systems are 12 volts, thrusters, winches, etc... But unfortunately no electrical diagram came with the boat.

 

[Portofino]

There's something odd about this set up because i am pretty sure the starter motors are 24 v only

The house lights ,thruster ,windlass you say are all 12 v let's call that "domestic "

Two bat banks of two
One bank needs to wired in series for both engine starters --24 v
The other bank needs to in pararell for the "domestic " stuff .12v

With a cross over switch from the Doms to the engine , seperately wired on the 12v Doms to enable 24 v to pararell with the engine bank when it's pushed down .

The 12v alternators should be wired to charge all four 12v .They are bolt on s so could be anything 12 or 24 or whatever ?

it just odd that straight after you reconfigured them the engines 24 v starter won,t start without the cross over switch .

I reckon you have inadvertantly somehow un 24 volted the starter s ?

Are both alternators the same ? you said one has 12 v label ?
What colour are they should be white if OEM

Incidentally the whole engine control box is 24 V

Try a voltmeter on the starter barrels ,behind the keys I bet there's 24 V

 

[jrudge]

Thank you for the comment, I did actually double check the voltage today and the labeling of the alternators say 12 volts, I assume the starters cannot be other than 12 volts then although I could not find the labelling on them. All other electrical systems are 12 volts, thrusters, winches, etc... But unfortunately no electrical diagram came with the boat.

So it seems to be a 12volt boat.

Turn off the chargers. Parallel the lot and Leave a good load on the batteries ( fridges , lights etc ).

Go to lunch and say 2 hours later disconnect the batteries and test the voltage of each battery with a multi meter. If one is dead the volts will be low. As above all of ours passed a drop test and this is how I found the problem.

Batteries sadly dont last forever and I imagine your starting batteries have decided to give up.

 

[baylabayla3288]

So it seems to be a 12volt boat.

Turn off the chargers. Parallel the lot and Leave a good load on the batteries ( fridges , lights etc ).

Go to lunch and say 2 hours later disconnect the batteries and test the voltage of each battery with a multi meter. If one is dead the volts will be low. As above all of ours passed a drop test and this is how I found the problem.

Batteries sadly dont last forever and I imagine your starting batteries have decided to give up.

Hi and tx again for the suggested test method, it sounds like a good and simple way to find a bad battery. I'll go and do this test.

 

[baylabayla3288]

There's something odd about this set up because i am pretty sure the starter motors are 24 v only

The house lights ,thruster ,windlass you say are all 12 v let's call that "domestic "

Two bat banks of two
One bank needs to wired in series for both engine starters --24 v
The other bank needs to in pararell for the "domestic " stuff .12v

With a cross over switch from the Doms to the engine , seperately wired on the 12v Doms to enable 24 v to pararell with the engine bank when it's pushed down .

The 12v alternators should be wired to charge all four 12v .They are bolt on s so could be anything 12 or 24 or whatever ?

it just odd that straight after you reconfigured them the engines 24 v starter won,t start without the cross over switch .

I reckon you have inadvertantly somehow un 24 volted the starter s ?

Are both alternators the same ? you said one has 12 v label ?
What colour are they should be white if OEM

Incidentally the whole engine control box is 24 V

Try a voltmeter on the starter barrels ,behind the keys I bet there's 24 V

Thank you for the comments. Indeed it seems wer odd actually. Both the alternators and starters are OEM with untouched bolts and white colour. Still I beleive that the engine starters would not turn with 12V if they are intended for 24V even with all 4 batts in paralell.