Starlight 39 or Sigma 38?

[ds797]

Just a little (currently theoretical) question......

For coastal day and weekend sailing, cruising further afield (Brittany, Ireland, Baltic, med), and for JOG racing (maybe 2-handed) which of these boats would we all go for and why?

I think the Sigma will be a little faster, but Starlight more comfortable and maybe easier to handle (no runners, designed more as a cruiser). The Sigmas are renowned as great boats though!

Just to start a little debate!

 

[Seven Spades]

You have answered your own question. If you want comfort buy the Starlight, if you want a basic boat that is probably shagged out but fast buy the Sigma.

 

[Bobc]

Wot he said

 

[DJE]

Went looking for a Starlight then thought about a Dehler 37 and eventually ended up with a Scanyahct 391. Not many about but possibly somewhere between the Starlight 39 and the Sigma 38?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?430768-Scanyachts-Scanner-391-Opinions

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sailed both. I'd race a Sigma and cruise a Starlight. You may well find, though, a considerable price incentive towards the Sigma.

 

[Aja]

Sailed both. I'd race a Sigma and cruise a Starlight. You may well find, though, a considerable price incentive towards the Sigma.

+1 but you might even find that sigma 38's are getting a bit long in the tooth in competitavness against their younger models...

Regards
Donald

 

[Quandary]

Sigma 38s are tough boats and there are still some very clean ones about, I see my old one regularly and she still looks fresh enough to make me lust for her. For cruising the runners can be dispensed with though they can be handy as hand holds. The only problem I recall with the Sigma 38 as a cruiser was the low sweep of the boom with the racing mainsail deployed, easily cured with a cruising main with the cringle placed a bit higher, or the use of a flattening reef. The other issue I recall is that the fuel filler was low on the side deck aft and needed to be carefully closed against water ingress. I suspect the Starlight is probably as comfortable though significantly slower and I would be surprised if she could be as stable downwind as our Sigma was in 40 kts. Ten berths is a lot, we never used all of them even when we raced her but the pilot berths made good secure stowage. Great boats for the West of Scotland where the water is deep and the weather can be 'variable'.
I do not know where 7 spades gets the notion that Sigma 38s are basic, similar interior fit out to Moodys by Marine Projects, wonder what he thinks they lack? how many Starlights come with 2 spinnakers as standard.

 

[sighmoon]

You may well find, though, a considerable price incentive towards the Sigma.

Which doesn't necessarily mean its better value. The Starlight is likely to have been sailed more cautiously, and less frequently.

I tried to buy a Sigma 38, and twice got as far as the survey. Among other things, both needed major work to the matrix, and both had either already had, or needed, remedial work to the shroud attachment points. If you can find one that hasn't been thrashed and bumped the shallows it's certainly worth a look.

We bought a Dehler 38 in the end, and we're very happy with it.

 

[temptress]

Just a little (currently theoretical) question......

For coastal day and weekend sailing, cruising further afield (Brittany, Ireland, Baltic, med), and for JOG racing (maybe 2-handed) which of these boats would we all go for and why?

I think the Sigma will be a little faster, but Starlight more comfortable and maybe easier to handle (no runners, designed more as a cruiser). The Sigmas are renowned as great boats though!

Just to start a little debate!

No contest. Having sailed both The Sigma 38 is a much better choice. Probably need to do a serious refit on whatever one you get but the Sigma will suit you better if you want to enjoy the JOG series.

 

[Skylark]

I'm not sure that I'm entitled to express a view as I have one of those mass produced French things. I'm also a committed cruiser.

There's both a Sigma 38 and a Starlight 39 in my marina. The Starlight is leaps and bounds ahead of the Sigma for my tastes.

 

[lpdsn]

The Sigma 38's have a lower AVS than you think they have (and that's just guessing what you think). That said, I raced on a few fifteen years or so ago and I always felt safe in rough weather.

They're not really that competitive as racers. The No.1 is hard work to tack.

Although they do have a cruiser fit out, it is geared towards providing the ten berths rather than anything else. You may well find that many are quite shabby down below (they'd suffered enough 15 years ago).

I've also done some sailing on a Starlight 39, including non-serious offshore racing. They sail OK but you'll not compete well. If you just want to finish the course it'll be fine, and you might find you'll finish when others don't. Never been out on her in really heavy weather, but those that had were happy with the handling.

 

[ds797]

Thanks for the input everyone! The Sigma is cheaper but is likely to need more of a refit hence the price difference isn't as large as one might think.

The Starlight has a very high bridge deck which I don't like as you are either exposed when entering cabin, or trying to squeeze between the deck and the sprayhood. Also it means the steps down into the cabin are long and steep.

Anyone have experience of the different keel options on the Starlight?

The Sigma rates 0.982 and Starlights seem to rate about 0.950 +/- a bit, so is there that much speed difference?

 

[Twister_Ken]

The Sigma rates 0.982 and Starlights seem to rate about 0.950 +/- a bit, so is there that much speed difference?

The Sigma is much more chuckable, and readier to surf waves. All makes a difference on the race track.

 

[westhinder]

Thanks for the input everyone! The Sigma is cheaper but is likely to need more of a refit hence the price difference isn't as large as one might think.

The Starlight has a very high bridge deck which I don't like as you are either exposed when entering cabin, or trying to squeeze between the deck and the sprayhood. Also it means the steps down into the cabin are long and steep.

Anyone have experience of the different keel options on the Starlight?

The Sigma rates 0.982 and Starlights seem to rate about 0.950 +/- a bit, so is there that much speed difference?

If you do not like the high bridgedeck on the Starlight, try to find a younger boat. They changed it to the level of the cockpit seats after a few boats were built.
I have never sailed a Sigma, so can't compare, and can only comment on the deep keel Starlight. But reading that a Sigma is able to sleep ten, compared with the Starlight's six, they must be totally different in concept, so not quite sure if they are real alternatives.
What I can say from experience, is that we tend to outpace many similar-sized more recent boats both in light airs and in the heavier stuff and that we have never even felt close to losing control. Maybe we haven't tried hard enough?
If you have any spcific questions on the Starlight 39, I'll be glad to answer them.

 

[jonic]

Having raced a Sigma I would opt for the Starlight for cruising.

The high bridge deck does give more space below.

We have one coming soon from a member of this parish http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=1177200

 

[Seven Spades]

Sigma 38s are tough boats and there are still some very clean ones about, I see my old one regularly and she still looks fresh enough to make me lust for her. For cruising the runners can be dispensed with though they can be handy as hand holds. The only problem I recall with the Sigma 38 as a cruiser was the low sweep of the boom with the racing mainsail deployed, easily cured with a cruising main with the cringle placed a bit higher, or the use of a flattening reef. The other issue I recall is that the fuel filler was low on the side deck aft and needed to be carefully closed against water ingress. I suspect the Starlight is probably as comfortable though significantly slower and I would be surprised if she could be as stable downwind as our Sigma was in 40 kts. Ten berths is a lot, we never used all of them even when we raced her but the pilot berths made good secure stowage. Great boats for the West of Scotland where the water is deep and the weather can be 'variable'.
I do not know where 7 spades gets the notion that Sigma 38s are basic, similar interior fit out to Moodys by Marine Projects, wonder what he thinks they lack? how many Starlights come with 2 spinnakers as standard.

Sigma 38 interior

Starlight 39 interior

 

[tat27]

I spent 2 years on a Sigma racing mainly and yes you could sleep 10 but there would be no room for any kit or sails and those pilot berths are comparable to sleeping in a coffin albeit secure in a blow. You should opt for a very thorough survey if you were buying a 38 that has been based in the Solent.

 

[sighmoon]

Sigma 38 interior

They must have offered more than one layout, because I remember them being wider at the front of the saloon, like this:

 

[Aja]

They must have offered more than one layout, because I remember them being wider at the front of the saloon, like this:

Where's the mast gone?

Regards
Donald

 

[Sailfree]

I was advised that a Sigma would be hard work sailing with just two.