Standing rigging replacement

Ross D

Ross D

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I posted a few months ago about swageless standing rigging from http://www.securefixdirect.com/swageless-terminals-624-c.asp.

The response was fairly evenly split between try it and definitely don't try it. (I'm not sure how to link a thread?)

I am just about to purchase my replacement rigging, having looked at the cone arrangement from Securefix they seem to be exactly the same as Blue wave fittings http://www.proboat.co.uk/item.asp?cat_id=30&prod_id=212&dep=1, which are Lloyds approved, gripping around the outside of the wire rather than the Norseman type gripping inside the wire.

The price difference is huge, from Securefix a complete replacement including new bottle screws, wire and all fittings is £360 (all unbranded), from S3i using Hi-Mod fittings the cost is around £760. I am currently doing major repairs to my mast step, so I need to terminate my rigging to length once the mast is up so professional swaged rigging is not an option.

Has anyone used Blue wave fittings or swageless fittings from securefix?
 
I'm not in a position to advise, but I did fit a set of Sta-Loks (6 in all) about 10 yrs ago. Can't remember the price, but definitely well South of £500 - including overlength wire and upper terminations. Allowing for inflation or 100% since then (guess) even £300 sounds a lot!
 
The 60% or so discount makes me suspicious. I very much doubt whether you are comparing like with like in quality terms. Most likely you are comparing cheap far east with quality european. And I note that the blurb for the pro boat fittings talks of a 0 to 15% strength reduction whilst the sta lok makes it clear that the fittings are stronger than the wire
 
I have used Blue Wave terminals .They're well made and very easy to assemble but I wouldn't use them in anything critical.I have a feeling that they can't be as secure as the Stalok/Norseman type terminals where the wire strands are bent around the edge of the cone as well as clamped by the body against it.I haven't seen any load tests so that's just a gut feeling.Having said that the common rolled swage appears to acomplish very much the same in a different way.
 
I have had a few PMs saying don't use Blue wave fittings for standing rigging, not sure why, they are Lloyds approved and I have just read this article from 10 years ago when they were load tested and did better than Norsemans.
http://bosunsupplies.com/GoodOldBoatQuickAttach.CFM

Apart from the gut reaction that they are cheaper and therefore not as good anyone got a reason why they shouldn't be used?
 
Ross D said:
I have had a few PMs saying don't use Blue wave fittings for standing rigging, not sure why, they are Lloyds approved and I have just read this article from 10 years ago when they were load tested and did better than Norsemans.
http://bosunsupplies.com/GoodOldBoatQuickAttach.CFM

Apart from the gut reaction that they are cheaper and therefore not as good anyone got a reason why they shouldn't be used?
Click to expand...

That's a good link.from the results obtained I would be inclined to trust the Blue Wave terminals which as I said before are well made.The serrated jaws are made of what appears to be carbon steel whis is prone to rust.I'm sure that a good quality sealant properly applied would insulate them from moisture.
 
A word of caution :

These tests were carried out on new wire and fittings. What matters is how they test during their assume working life : standard 10 years for standing rigging for cruising boats.

My worry with this fitting is that it relies on teeth or barbs to grip the wire. Norsmans and Staylocs do not. Crevice corrosion in the marine environment, particularly agressive in the condition we find here in the tropics, could detroy the teeth fairly quickly. Obviously one could theoretically exclude any salt water from the fitting, but I doubt if it would prove true in practice.

I wouldn't trust any unit that hadn't been tested after being in a corrosive environment equivalent to say 15 years at sea.

It has been said that these fittings are Lloyds approved. What are they approved for?
 
TradewindSailor said:
A word of caution :

These tests were carried out on new wire and fittings. What matters is how they test during their assume working life : standard 10 years for standing rigging for cruising boats.

My worry with this fitting is that it relies on teeth or barbs to grip the wire. Norsmans and Staylocs do not. Crevice corrosion in the marine environment, particularly agressive in the condition we find here in the tropics, could detroy the teeth fairly quickly. Obviously one could theoretically exclude any salt water from the fitting, but I doubt if it would prove true in practice.

I wouldn't trust any unit that hadn't been tested after being in a corrosive environment equivalent to say 15 years at sea.

It has been said that these fittings are Lloyds approved. What are they approved for?
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
Another failure mode is fatigue. The loads on standing rigging are cyclic and very prone to fatigue. The teeth used in the jaws and the necessary damage to the outer strands create stress concentrations that may promote fatigue with this cyclic loading. If the teeth or the outer strands fail, so does the whole stay.

The manufacturers should have data for accelerated corrosion and fatigue tests.
 
When I did the Sta-Loks on mine, I'd thought about corrosion, and slathered everything in slow cure epoxy. Seemed to work.

But, thinking about 'teeth' etc... it occurs to me that if the initial grab is good enough, then corrosion will only add volume to the joint and improve it?
 
boguing said:
When I did the Sta-Loks on mine, I'd thought about corrosion, and slathered everything in slow cure epoxy. Seemed to work.

But, thinking about 'teeth' etc... it occurs to me that if the initial grab is good enough, then corrosion will only add volume to the joint and improve it?
Click to expand...

staloc recommend
To water proof the STA-LOK terminal: -

* Unscrew the socket assembly from the end fitting.
* Fill the end fitting approximately ¼ full with caulking*.
* Re-assemble.
* Remove excess caulking from the top of the fitting.
* The STA-LOK Terminal is reusable however a new wedge must be used.

* Caulking use boat life lifecaulk, 3m 101 polysulfide

will yours come apart ever
 
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Sold the boat, so not my problem now!

Having said that, I never even thought about taking them apart again. The only reason I can think of would be for the next rigging renewal, and I would renew the fitting too.
 
This is very reassuring we have just decided to bite the bullet and are currently buying complete new rigging from securefix in time to beat the VAT increase.

I also thought about crevice corrosion and am glad someone came to the same comclusion as me that once gripped any corrosion products will only serve to increase the grip on the wire. Also the whole fitting is made from 316 stainless, (it has been many years since I had to study corrosion properties of stainless steel and I have no desire to dig out and re-read my notes) I think that a 316 stainless fitting with stainless wiring is far less likely to corrode than a chrome plated fitting with stainless wire. Both Norseman and Stalok are chrome plated brass/bronze. Chrome plating is not very effective and unless it has a very carefully controlled post plating chemical treatment the chrome will be micorporus, and the plating may scratch during assembly thus leading to a galvanic cell inside the fitting.

This is all only guess work I will report back in 10 years if it is a success, or sooner if my mast falls down!:)
 
Ross D said:
This is very reassuring we have just decided to bite the bullet and are currently buying complete new rigging from securefix in time to beat the VAT increase.

I also thought about crevice corrosion and am glad someone came to the same comclusion as me that once gripped any corrosion products will only serve to increase the grip on the wire. Also the whole fitting is made from 316 stainless, (it has been many years since I had to study corrosion properties of stainless steel and I have no desire to dig out and re-read my notes) I think that a 316 stainless fitting with stainless wiring is far less likely to corrode than a chrome plated fitting with stainless wire. Both Norseman and Stalok are chrome plated brass/bronze. Chrome plating is not very effective and unless it has a very carefully controlled post plating chemical treatment the chrome will be micorporus, and the plating may scratch during assembly thus leading to a galvanic cell inside the fitting.

This is all only guess work I will report back in 10 years if it is a success, or sooner if my mast falls down!:)
Click to expand...

from memory Sta-loc are S/S

more info




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Sta-lok Terminals
Sta-lok Terminals are a range of High Quality high performance wire rope fittings for 1 x 19, 7 x 7, 7 x 19, and Dyform wire ropes.

The Sta-lok system is a simple mechanical method of terminating wire ropes, and has proven itself to be the most efficient method of terminating wire ropes.

The Sta-lok terminal is stronger than the wire rope. It will work under constant load and variable shock loading. In all situations the Sta-lok Terminal has proven totally reliable.
The Sta-lok Terminal is manufactured from 316 stainless steel grade 1.4401, and can be fitted on site using very simple hand tools. All Sta-lok Terminals are reusable*.

*A new wedge component must be used
 
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I stand corrected, I have just checked and both stalok, norseman, S3i and bluewave are all 316 stainless. I'm not sure where I read the bit about chrome plated brass someone defintiely makes them from chrome plated bronze, I have read it in the last few days but now can't remember where:confused:
 
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