Standard Horizon Handheld - not transmitting on ch.80

[Way]

as always, thanks for all your help and replies

I did a radio check with the marina in the morning - it came through but apparently was faint. Strange as battery was virtually full and I was transmitting on 6W.

Who knows, could just be an anomaly in the Medina as on 12 and 68 it has been absolutely fine, at bigger ranges.

Thanks all

 

[pvb]

I did a radio check with the marina in the morning - it came through but apparently was faint. Strange as battery was virtually full and I was transmitting on 6W.

It shouldn't have been faint. Be best to get the radio checked by SH.

 

[lustyd]

I hadn't realised you were in the Medina. In that case 80 won't work because every marina uses 80 there and it's very busy. Try somewhere else before bothering SH and when in the medina use your mobile

 

[pvb]

I hadn't realised you were in the Medina. In that case 80 won't work because every marina uses 80 there and it's very busy. Try somewhere else before bothering SH and when in the medina use your mobile

How on earth does the fact that other marinas use channel 80 cause the OP's radio not to transmit properly??

 

[prv]

That is not quite correct with Ch 80, on your fixed VHF you CAN hear the shore station talking to other boats, and of course to you, what you cannot hear is other boats talking to the shore station. This often results in yachts calling up a marina simultaneously as neither can hear the other.

Which is why it's always struck me as a daft choice of channel. Any idea why it was chosen?

Pete

 

[lustyd]

How on earth does the fact that other marinas use channel 80 cause the OP's radio not to transmit properly??

It doesn't but the congestion and interference means that signal is almost always weak in the medina.

 

[PilotWolf]

This isn't direct at anyone here in particular but there seems to be an awful lot of misunderstanding on how vhf and it's channel allocation/use is set up.

Is it because it was years since you did the course (or haven't done it!) or is it because the course(s) are lacking in what is taught?

W.

 

[lustyd]

This isn't direct at anyone here in particular but there seems to be an awful lot of misunderstanding on how vhf and it's channel allocation/use is set up.

Is it because it was years since you did the course (or haven't done it!) or is it because the course(s) are lacking in what is taught?

W.

Can you explain what you mean by that? I think everyone has explained quite well!

 

[pvb]

It doesn't but the congestion and interference means that signal is almost always weak in the medina.

Ridiculous!

 

[lustyd]

Ridiculous!

Well, being based in the Solent I'm there all the time and almost never get through to the marina on the VHF unless it's an unusually quiet day. There are 5 or 6 marinas within close proximity and approximately 40 yachts trying to get in at any given moment, all of whom are calling at the same time, mostly using high power in the misguided expectation that this will help them get through. Both my VHF sets work fine everywhere else, so I know for a fact that neither of mine have a transmission problem on channel 80. I'm sure I'm not the only forumite to have this issue in the Medina, and this thread is testament to that.

 

[pvb]

Well, being based in the Solent I'm there all the time and almost never get through to the marina on the VHF unless it's an unusually quiet day. There are 5 or 6 marinas within close proximity and approximately 40 yachts trying to get in at any given moment, all of whom are calling at the same time, mostly using high power in the misguided expectation that this will help them get through. Both my VHF sets work fine everywhere else, so I know for a fact that neither of mine have a transmission problem on channel 80. I'm sure I'm not the only forumite to have this issue in the Medina, and this thread is testament to that.

So that explains why, when the OP tested his radio with the marina on 6W, they said it was "faint"? There are loads of marinas where I sail, and no VHF problems. And, if there are "approximately 40 yachts trying to get in at any given moment", your 5 or 6 local marinas must be huge!

 

[PilotWolf]

Can you explain what you mean by that? I think everyone has explained quite well!

How about examples of radio operation that is not in the UK, confusion over who can hear who on a duplex channel or the fact that someone believes that high traffic volume reduces the OP's transmission?

W.

 

[lustyd]

How about examples of radio operation that is not in the UK, confusion over who can hear who on a duplex channel or the fact that someone believes that high traffic volume reduces the OP's transmission?

W.

Those guys were quite correct about the american channels but made a simple mistake about the direction of traffic which I think is forgiveable given their overall contributions to the forum.

As for high volume, I'm afraid that I am right there too. Radio technology is not a strongest signal wins solution. All signals will propogate from their originating point and will interfere with any other signal on the same frequency (this works in exactly the same way as throwing two stones into a still pond). Transmission power doesn't really help with this, the stronger signal will go further but that just means it will interfere with even more signals further away (marina comms should always be on low power). the stronger signal will still suffer interference though, and since nobody on Channel 80 can hear anyone else, everyone assumes it's their set playing up and switches to high power, hence Pete's question about why duplex was chosen for marina use. Unfortunately I don't think whoever chose it imagined a world where so many very large marinas would be put in the same place with the same channel. They also wouldn't have imagined that all of the boats would come in at the same time for dinner and drinks in Cowes because at the time people would have eaten on board!

ETA - If traffic volume were not a problem then Solent Coastguard would be a little less upset when people leave their set transmitting outboard noises, or when someone transmits their after dinner conversation!

 

[lustyd]

So that explains why, when the OP tested his radio with the marina on 6W, they said it was "faint"? There are loads of marinas where I sail, and no VHF problems. And, if there are "approximately 40 yachts trying to get in at any given moment", your 5 or 6 local marinas must be huge!

I'd suggest you come to the Solent and see for yourself. Yes the marinas are big, and they fill the spaces between yachts with other yachts too. Although technically this is rafting, it's more 2 dimentional than rafting, so the guy at the back would need to move 12 yachts in order to leave in the morning! At peak time the Medina resembles the M25

 

[PilotWolf]

Those guys were quite correct about the american channels but made a simple mistake about the direction of traffic which I think is forgiveable given their overall contributions to the forum.

As for high volume, I'm afraid that I am right there too. Radio technology is not a strongest signal wins solution. All signals will propogate from their originating point and will interfere with any other signal on the same frequency (this works in exactly the same way as throwing two stones into a still pond). Transmission power doesn't really help with this, the stronger signal will go further but that just means it will interfere with even more signals further away (marina comms should always be on low power). the stronger signal will still suffer interference though, and since nobody on Channel 80 can hear anyone else, everyone assumes it's their set playing up and switches to high power, hence Pete's question about why duplex was chosen for marina use. Unfortunately I don't think whoever chose it imagined a world where so many very large marinas would be put in the same place with the same channel. They also wouldn't have imagined that all of the boats would come in at the same time for dinner and drinks in Cowes because at the time people would have eaten on board!

ETA - If traffic volume were not a problem then Solent Coastguard would be a little less upset when people leave their set transmitting outboard noises, or when someone transmits their after dinner conversation!

I am fully aware of how radio works - I have been a ROC holder and radio amateur for many years. Plus having significant practical experience in radio installation/maintenance from LF up to microwave.

Volume has nothing to do with it other than how high you set your AF gain! Interference is just that - two signals effectively merging to be unreadable! Your statements contradict themselves regarding strongest and loudest 'winning' or not...

It matters not whether the channel is blocked by music/outboard noises or a carrier. If the interfering signal is stronger at the receiver it will block the weaker (as in RF power) transmission(s).

Your example of people not understanding that a duplex channel maybe busy is a perfect example of operators' lack of understanding that I mentioned earlier! If you are old enough to recall coast radio stations they would transmit a busy signal when the channel was in use.

I accept people make mistakes but if a contributor is a 'respected formite' their posts tend to be taken as gospel - even if they are clearly wrong (or confused) - and so the Chinese whisper effect takes place.

W.

 

[wotayottie]

as always, thanks for all your help and replies

I did a radio check with the marina in the morning - it came through but apparently was faint. Strange as battery was virtually full and I was transmitting on 6W.

Who knows, could just be an anomaly in the Medina as on 12 and 68 it has been absolutely fine, at bigger ranges.

Thanks all

You should not be using channel 68 for anything.

 

[Solitaire]

You should not be using channel 68 for anything.

Why not? Be a bit of a problem in the River Hamble as we could not communicate with Hamble Harbour Radio whose working ch is 68

 

[RestlessL]

Why not? Be a bit of a problem in the River Hamble as we could not communicate with Hamble Harbour Radio whose working ch is 68

Ditto Yarmouth Harbour

 

[pvb]

I'd suggest you come to the Solent and see for yourself. Yes the marinas are big, and they fill the spaces between yachts with other yachts too. Although technically this is rafting, it's more 2 dimentional than rafting, so the guy at the back would need to move 12 yachts in order to leave in the morning! At peak time the Medina resembles the M25

As PilotWolf has also said, busy doesn't mean that the OP's signal would become faint.

 

[lustyd]

I am fully aware of how radio works - I have been a ROC holder and radio amateur for many years. Plus having significant practical experience in radio installation/maintenance from LF up to microwave.

Volume has nothing to do with it other than how high you set your AF gain! Interference is just that - two signals effectively merging to be unreadable! Your statements contradict themselves regarding strongest and loudest 'winning' or not...

It matters not whether the channel is blocked by music/outboard noises or a carrier. If the interfering signal is stronger at the receiver it will block the weaker (as in RF power) transmission(s).

Your example of people not understanding that a duplex channel maybe busy is a perfect example of operators' lack of understanding that I mentioned earlier! If you are old enough to recall coast radio stations they would transmit a busy signal when the channel was in use.

I accept people make mistakes but if a contributor is a 'respected formite' their posts tend to be taken as gospel - even if they are clearly wrong (or confused) - and so the Chinese whisper effect takes place.

W.

The stronger signal doesn't block the weaker though, they interfere with one another which appears to the receiving set as a weak or crackly signal.

No I'm not old enough to remember, but you seem old enough to be a grumpy old man. Duplex means you can't hear the other yacht traffic and therefore don't know that your signal is suffering interference until the shore station says so. In the Medina they generally don't bother because it doesn't help much.

Holding qualifications for many years simply makes you older than me, doesn't mean that you know more, and from your post it's quite clear that your understanding is less thorough than you think it is.