Stainless steel anchor chain

Would anyone who is qualified to know have an idea how much labour is involved in drilling 4 holes in the stem head roller channel, bolting through to a plate in the anchor locker and silicon sealing the holes?

I have a couple of estimates that differ substantially, so I'd like a few other opinions.
 
Magnum said:
Would anyone who is qualified to know have an idea how much labour is involved in drilling 4 holes in the stem head roller channel, bolting through to a plate in the anchor locker and silicon sealing the holes?

I have a couple of estimates that differ substantially, so I'd like a few other opinions.
Click to expand...

thickness of material and size of holes would be helpful for anyone wanting to estimate labour costs. I guess it has to be done in situ as well (complicates the process)

V.
 
Including making the backing plate (perhaps in 10mm aluminium, not 3mm or whatever s/s, makes more sense), I'd guess £400 - £500 whether in situ or with the parts removed and taken to a workshop. I'm thinking one man day plus contribution to capital equipment. As a Princess extra I'd expect it would become £750 with overheads. Ex VAT if any
BTW you want polyurethane, not silicone, in this application
 
Don't use silicone use Sika, or something similar. I can see no reason not to use a stainless backing plate - alloy simply allows corrosion (even with Duralac) and makes it impossible to disassemble. The cost of a stainless plate vs alloy is irrelevant - its the labour you will pay for.

I have to agree - its the sort of job you should be able to do yourself. its not complicated - you just need time and a drill with variable speed.
 
I think the stopper is supplied with a backing plate, but I could be wrong.

Would you believe that the most expensive (by quite some margin) quote received so far was for no less than £1260 +VAT, and that was the labour element only!
 
The supplied backing plate (if it exists) might be a bit small, it might only have the same footprint as the device itself, and I would tend to make it a larger area (unless there is something else in the way). But if they supply a backing plate it will provide a nice template. Stainless steel plate is really not that expensive (and it does not need to be all pretty and shiny).
 
And do not use turps to clean up! Mask and wipe (water only). The turps will wick under the sealant and weaken the bond. Polyurethanes cure with atmospheric moisture - turps is a solvent (which is why people use it - it cleans so well).
 
Magnum said:
Thanks but why is that?
Click to expand...
Polyurethanes (like sika 291, 3M 4200) are adhesives as well as sealants, which helps in this case because you don't want microscopic movement. It seals just as well, but unlike silicone its adhesive qualities and stronger mechanical strength mean it isn't removed or unbonded by small movements or even cleaning brushes etc, and it stays in place better as you tighten the bolts. Silicone has no place on a boat apart from sealing the bathtub and such like, on the boat's interior.

I wholly diasagree Neeves's comments on stainless plate and his reference to Duralac is nuts imho (I mean, you wouldn't dream of using duralac on a job like this), but no point in "going there" as he will type a page of stuff :D. Stainless is stronger per kilo but in this application (ie a backing pad) you're looking for stiffness not strength when designing backing pad whose function is to spread load to GRP and kg for kg ali plate is much stiffer. The corrosion point is a non issue because the polyurethane sealant will keep all water away from the aluminium/stainless interface. No big deal though - frankly plywood would probably do.

£1,260 labour is punchy! Princess make lovely boats but, as you're discovering, god help you these days if you want anything non standard!
 
I'm not sure why not Duralac, its on the inside, under the deck - who is going to see it and is Sika any more attractive? I'm a belt and braces type and the stopper might need to take a lot of load. I would not use ply, unless its sealed, ally will superficially corrode and look ugly unless anodised (and you are averse to Duralac!?).

I fully agree with your comments on silicone - awful stuff on a boat. How about a recommendation on the bolts - if the holes in the stopper are small I might look at Duplex, rather than 316.

Hopefully that was short enough not to exceed JFM's concentration span :)
 
I'm not sure to understand the rationale behind the whole backing plate discussion.
I mean, either there is one already, or not. But if not, the whole bow roller channel must still be designed strongly enough to withstand the sideways (and snap!) pulls of the chain when the boat swings in strong winds - regardless of the chain lock.
The only additional force added by the chain lock is longitudinal, along the axis which is bound to be the stronger one for the bow roller.
Or am I missing something...?
 
My understanding is, was, that the stopper is not attached (as such) to the channel - the bolts simply pass straight through and through the deck to the inside of the chain/anchor locker. The load is on the bolts, not the channel, and the bolts are restrained by the nuts, washers and any backing plate. I suspect the fibre glass is actually sufficient (is it solid glass??) (but I simply do not know). Of course if the channel is beefy enough you could tap the plate - but I suspect its not that thick. I recall the channel might be affixed with coach bolts - but then it was taking load - though bolts seem a better (if more expensive option). I might try to use the coach bolt holes to fit the stopper - but I guess the spacings will be wrong.

In the absence of knowing how the deck is laid up - I'd use a backing plate. Its not 'difficult' - the bolts pass right through?? so why not.

If you wonder why any ply should be sealed - the locker is possibly the dampest place on the boat, the chain is constantly wet, its wet from salt water - if anything is going to corrode/rot - its in there, warm, wet and salt.

Hope this is not too long!
 
Some facts from me that might help.

My Lewmar Chain Stopper didn't come with a backing plate and I don't see why it should have.

I fitted my stopper myself but I didn't have the problem of drilling into a channel.

The Bolts are M16 and I, for one, wouldn't like to drill holes that size.
Look back on this thread and you will see comments from Asm - he did drill his channel and it took him hours and lots of new drill bits.
Holes of this size in S/S aren't something you can just pop in - it needs proper tools and/or lots of time.

In my case, I had a new deck plate made by a local S/S fabricator here in Devon.
He made the deck plate with the holes already drilled to take the Chain Stopper.
He also made me a S/S plate (again with the holes pre-drilled) to go under the deck.
The hardest job I had was to align the holes when drilling the actual deck.
I worried about how I was going to do that but when it actually came to doing it, it was relatively easy - two of us lining up the drill as I drilled the deck.

Anyway - the costs.
None for actually fitting to the boat - I did that bit myself.

Unfortunately, the deck plate and underside deck plate were all part of other bits that I got my S/S fabricator to make.
So, I can only estimate from his charge and prices for other jobs that he has done for me.
About £300 I think - but the top deck plate was also polished.

I can see where £1260 comes from.
 
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If M16 - they are pretty massive, I'd be drilling increasingly large holes to get there. It easier in some respects as you can drill pilot holes and make sure they are right before you get too big (though you might need long drill bits).

You should be able to make your own backing plate - its really not difficult.

But it all needs time, especially M16 holes! and it will need a very good drill (most drills will simply have too small a chuck and the cost of buying a drill, as few will have one that size, would encourage employing someone to do it!).
 
My mate Jake the engineer would do this sort of work cash in hand for £200 all done. Get a machine shop to do it, but don't say it is for your new £x.00m yacht first or you will pay a rich-bastard-tax. Then maybe £300 + vat for the drilling, countersinking and backing plate fabrication. Do the installation yourself in a couple of hours. The stainless drilling is the only bit that is remotely tricky and should be done in the shop..

Last minute changes shouldn't cause you to get ripped off like this. This is business so Princess deserve a profit, but business shouldn't be immoral and immoral is what that cost is.
 
Neeves said:
Magnum never actually said that the extortionate quote was from Princess - but maybe I missed a nuance or 3.
Click to expand...

Correct. At this stage I think it's best if the quotes stay anonymous.

I do have more information regarding the £1260 though. The stem head will be removed, drilled in a machine shop and refitted. 24 hours of labour costed for.
 
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