Stainless steel anchor chain

[Hurricane]

Interesting.
I don't remember how similar (or not) JW deck is vs. the new P68, but looking at this one among the pics posted by Magnum, I would have thought that reaching the underside at least of those screws on the right, towards the tip of the bow roller, is extremely hard...?

If the new P68's fundamental bow design is the same as our P67 (and I suspect that it is) then it is very easy to get to the underside.
One of those hatches is access to a wet locker - our wired remote control for the windlass and deck wash is in there - we also keep our kedge anchor and anchor bridle/strop in there.
The other hatch is access to the whole chain locker - even a fat git like me can climb down there and have full access to the windlass and the underside of the whole of that deck.

 

[Hurricane]

Photobucket is down at the moment - big time.
So, I'll post a pic of SammyB's chain stopper when Photobucket is back working again.

Photobucket back working this morning so here are the pics of SammyB's chain stopper.
These pics show that a shim under the Lewmar chain stopper can look good and work well.
This is 12mm chain and the same stopper that you are considering.

BTW - they have the same anchor that you have selected - and they are very pleased with it.

 

[jfm]

That picture of sammyb's foredeck shows the Ultra device that flips the anchor the right way up. Does same job as osculati banana but takes up less length and can bend around a roller. I have one but haven't got round to installing it. Nice bit of kit.

 

[Neeves]

Maybe a bit agricultural for lovers of stainless but this is a galvanised alternative to Osculati's banana

http://www.mysailing.com.au/cruisin... the short chain between Boomerang and anchor

 

[MapisM]

I don't mind the agricultural look - farmers are clever folks, who wouldn't use any bit of kit unless effective! :encouragement:
But what's the point of fitting it as shown below (pic taken from your link)?
I would think that it should work equally well if attached directly to the anchor, hence with a slightly less cluttered foredeck, and getting rid of two shackles in the process...

 

[Hurricane]

Maybe a bit agricultural for lovers of stainless but this is a galvanised alternative to Osculati's banana

http://www.mysailing.com.au/cruisin... the short chain between Boomerang and anchor

Having used the Osculati bananna for the lasy 6 years, I can see how that would work.
But, for me at the moment, I'm happy with just a shackle - keeping it simple for now.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't mind the agricultural look - farmers are clever folks, who wouldn't use any bit of kit unless effective! :encouragement:
But what's the point of fitting it as shown below (pic taken from your link)?
I would think that it should work equally well if attached directly to the anchor, hence with a slightly less cluttered foredeck, and getting rid of two shackles in the process...

Agreed

 

[NormanS]

It depends on the profile of the stem. The anchor has to be able to rotate without hitting the boat, so may require the extra length of chain. My (similar) bent link is shackled direct to the anchor, and does the job perfectly every time.

 

[Neeves]

There are a number of issues.

Attaching directly to the shank increases the lever arm effect and if your anchor is well set (and that's one of the major advantages of these newer anchors) then in a gust you have a chance of bending the shank - it does happen. It can also be a big problem is you retrieve in a hurry with a bit too much aggression. Additionally you have a good chance of bending the self-righting device. The forks are a weak point. Again you have that lever arm effect. The swivel is a waste of time, yet another weak point. These swivels do not unswivel any twists, the torque and gravity do that we you retrieve. The swivel is simply another unnecessary weak point - lovely piece of engineering but completely useless, too much friction (I've tried it).

If you dive on your anchor you will see that the toe and the shackle disappear into the seabed together. The shackle is pulled under with some length of chain - in soft sand, lots of load - the whole anchor and lots of chain are buried - its the sign of a good anchor. Most swivels are large - they act as a deterent to the anchor diving. The boomerang is thinner than the length of chain it replaces - it actually encourages the anchor to dive. Made correctly the Boomerang is stronger than the chain - an 8mm model has a UTS of just under 9t (so factorially over strength)

But having the boomerang at a distance - as mentioned - the self righting 'event' can be quite sudden and violent. Moreover many modern windlass are simply so quick that the self right is still uncompleted as the anchor comes over the roller. The few links of chain allow the anchor to self right before it arrives at the bow roller. it does as mentioned, with a plum bow, ensure the bow is not damaged. Shackles are stronger than the chain and if correctly moused and/or Loctite are perfectly secure.

We did look at ways to reduce the shackles - but were defeated.

Edit I should add one of the prime motivators for the Boomerang was Norman, above. He built his more along the lines of the Oscaluti device from a piece of bent rod and rings welded to the ends (but he dispensed with the unnecessary swivel). The principles are exactly the same. So no claims for originality - again, thanks Norman. Here in Oz a number of Boomerangs have been made by individuals and by a consortium (who had them laser cut and HDG together). You can also now buy them here commercially cloned from the instructions. close edit.

 

[Hurricane]

There are a number of issues.

Attaching directly to the shank increases the lever arm effect and if your anchor is well set (and that's one of the major advantages of these newer anchors) then in a gust you have a chance of bending the shank - it does happen. It can also be a big problem is you retrieve in a hurry with a bit too much aggression. Additionally you have a good chance of bending the self-righting device. The forks are a weak point. Again you have that lever arm effect. The swivel is a waste of time, yet another weak point. These swivels do not unswivel any twists, the torque and gravity do that we you retrieve. The swivel is simply another unnecessary weak point - lovely piece of engineering but completely useless, too much friction (I've tried it).

If you dive on your anchor you will see that the toe and the shackle disappear into the seabed together. The shackle is pulled under with some length of chain - in soft sand, lots of load - the whole anchor and lots of chain are buried - its the sign of a good anchor. Most swivels are large - they act as a deterent to the anchor diving. The boomerang is thinner than the length of chain it replaces - it actually encourages the anchor to dive. Made correctly the Boomerang is stronger than the chain - an 8mm model has a UTS of just under 9t (so factorially over strength)

But having the boomerang at a distance - as mentioned - the self righting 'event' can be quite sudden and violent. Moreover many modern windlass are simply so quick that the self right is still uncompleted as the anchor comes over the roller. The few links of chain allow the anchor to self right before it arrives at the bow roller. it does as mentioned, with a plum bow, ensure the bow is not damaged. Shackles are stronger than the chain and if correctly moused and/or Loctite are perfectly secure.

We did look at ways to reduce the shackles - but were defeated.

Edit I should add one of the prime motivators for the Boomerang was Norman, above. He built his more along the lines of the Oscaluti device from a piece of bent rod and rings welded to the ends (but he dispensed with the unnecessary swivel). The principles are exactly the same. So no claims for originality - again, thanks Norman. Here in Oz a number of Boomerangs have been made by individuals and by a consortium (who had them laser cut and HDG together). You can also now buy them here commercially cloned from the instructions. close edit.

Ok
I see
That makes sense now.

Just for the record here is a video showing the Osculati swivel working.



But, as I say, since fitting the Rocna, we are managing without a swivel - just a shackle.

 

[MapisM]

Attaching directly to the shank increases the lever arm effect

Pardon? I can't see how that can happen.
I wasn't suggesting to weld the boomerang to the anchor shank!
Pretty sure the thing would be attached to the shank with one shackle, which means that geometrically the lever arm difference vs. chain only is absolutely zero, in my books.

 

[Neeves]

Pardon? I can't see how that can happen.
I wasn't suggesting to weld the boomerang to the anchor shank!
Pretty sure the thing would be attached to the shank with one shackle, which means that geometrically the lever arm difference vs. chain only is absolutely zero, in my books.

Sorry M,

I was generalising. Usually the Ultra swivel, Oscalati swivel, and many other swivels, are attached directly to the shank - which increases the lever arm effect. In fact most swivels have a fork which looks ideal to directly attach to the shank. Cheap swivels can fail anywhere, fork, swivel itself, clevis pins - I have never heard of an Ultra swivel failing. We found that our windlass is simply too quick, its a Maxwell, and if you use a shackle (only) then the anchor is still turning as it comes over the bow roller - belting the living daylight out of anything in the way. A length of chain allows the anchor to turn, safely. This length of chaindoes, and the length of the Boomerang, restrict the vessels on which it can be used. With one shackle (between boomerang and shank) - there is obviously no lever effect. Most swivels I see connected are connected directly to the shank. The idea, I assume, of having a conventional swivel is to allow the anchor to self right - a dangerous waste of money - I hear of more (cheap) swivel failures than any other component in the rode and cheap shackles come second.

 

[NormanS]

Pardon? I can't see how that can happen.
I wasn't suggesting to weld the boomerang to the anchor shank!
Pretty sure the thing would be attached to the shank with one shackle, which means that geometrically the lever arm difference vs. chain only is absolutely zero, in my books.

Yes, mine is connected direct to the anchor, with one bow shackle. Somewhere in the link from Neeves, I think there is reference to a "boomerang" with jaws, which if connected direct to the anchor, would indeed increase the leverage on the anchor. I think we can all see that that would not be good.

 

[MapisM]

With one shackle (between boomerang and shank) - there is obviously no lever effect. Most swivels I see connected are connected directly to the shank.

Fairenuff.
I thought you were referring to the "agricultural" thingie, which obviously can't be attached to the shank without a shackle. :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But having the boomerang at a distance - as mentioned - the self righting 'event' can be quite sudden and violent. Moreover many modern windlass are simply so quick that the self right is still uncompleted as the anchor comes over the roller. The few links of chain allow the anchor to self right before it arrives at the bow roller. it does as mentioned, with a plum bow, ensure the bow is not damaged.

We used the Osculati Twist for a few years and the Kong swivel before that. You're right, the self righting action of the Twist can be quite violent if you just keep your finger continuously on the winch control button. The violence of that self righting action can be much reduced though by bringing the swivel into the bow roller slowly in small steps. Having said that we dont use a Twist or swivel at all anymore because we have found that leaving the anchor just under the water and going astern rights the anchor almost without fail and this technique seems to work particularly well with the Rocna

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

We used the Osculati Twist for a few years and the Kong swivel before that. You're right, the self righting action of the Twist can be quite violent if you just keep your finger continuously on the winch control button. The violence of that self righting action can be much reduced though by bringing the swivel into the bow roller slowly in small steps. Having said that we dont use a Twist or swivel at all anymore because we have found that leaving the anchor just under the water and going astern rights the anchor almost without fail and this technique seems to work particularly well with the Rocna

Surely if you're leaving your anchor just under the water you're still anchored, no?

 

[petem]

We used the Osculati Twist for a few years and the Kong swivel before that. You're right, the self righting action of the Twist can be quite violent if you just keep your finger continuously on the winch control button. The violence of that self righting action can be much reduced though by bringing the swivel into the bow roller slowly in small steps. Having said that we dont use a Twist or swivel at all anymore because we have found that leaving the anchor just under the water and going astern rights the anchor almost without fail and this technique seems to work particularly well with the Rocna

I don't understand all this stuff. When we had our boat the anchor always righted itself without any gadgets.

 

[Neeves]

I note that some of you retrieve from the helm and possibly cannot see where the anchor might be, are chain counters sufficiently accurate??

We retrieve at the bow and once retrieved secure the anchor independent of the windlass (clutches slip and the last thing you need is your 100m of 12mm chain hanging (all of it) off the bow. You will then find out if your windlass is capable of retrieving the lot!)

Deleted User, We do something similar and have our chain marked at 1m intervals for 5m. We thus know when the Boomerang is going to hit the bow roller. If you have a variety of different foredecks hands they sometimes lack the care, or concentration - then having a few links between the Boomerang and anchor is advantageous.

Many need to leave their anchor in the water on retrieval just to clean it Some suggest a clogged fluke is a sign of a good anchor - I think its s sign that if it drags it will not re-set - each to their own.

The reason for marking the first, or last, 5m of our chain in 1m intervals is so that we know how well the anchor is buried. Often the anchor is totally invisible - the chain givers some indication how deep it might be.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't understand all this stuff. When we had our boat the anchor always righted itself without any gadgets.

I think you were lucky.
Think about it - if you suspend an anchor it will eventually find its natural position.
That isn't always the same position on a boat - especially if you use a swivel.
In the early days for us, about 50% of the time, it would come up the correct way.
The Osculati Twist sorted it for us.
Now, with the new Rocna. (like Deleted User) we leave it in the water - just below the surface and it turns itself the correct way round.

 

[Neeves]

I think you were lucky.
Think about it - if you suspend an anchor it will eventually find its natural position.
That isn't always the same position on a boat - especially if you use a swivel.
In the early days for us, about 50% of the time, it would come up the correct way.
The Osculati Twist sorted it for us.
Now, with the new Rocna. (like Deleted User) we leave it in the water - just below the surface and it turns itself the correct way round.

And if the skipper loses concentration, or needs to alter normal procedure for some reason and is moving forward the anchor will then re-align back to front. Many will retrieve moving gently forward simply because that is the best way to break the anchor out and that is the way to clear the anchorage safely.

A number of anchors will align correctly - if the vessel is moving backwards.

Some, modern windlass are so fast on retrieval you will find the anchor will rotate on retrieval (stick your head over the bow and have a look). The obvious remedy is to let any twists fall out - many are in too much of a hurry.