Mrnotming
Well-Known Member
I broke those clamps once,replaced them with ss type loop tiedowns or eyelets (lower part of padeye) no further issues thereafter!
st4000 wheel pilot
- Thread starter Robin
- Start date
Robin
Well-Known Member
Thanks, hopefully the new drive will outlast me. but if not that is worth knowing .
jimmyk
Well-Known Member
I have an st4000 about 12 years old. Always been great. spares can be had off eBay I think
Robin
Well-Known Member
I have found a new belt on fleabay and have one in transit already but the immediate solution will be the new Mk11 drive that should be installed for us next week. The inboard quadrant mounted pilots are much more powerful and reliable and we have had those as well as the old 4000 type ones in the past. in fact our last UK owned boat a Jeanneau Sun Legende had both a 7000 inboard one and a 4000 fittedon the wheel ready to go but we removed that and stored it below as a spare as it otherwise dragged a little on the finger light steering
jimmyk
Well-Known Member
I
Yeah. Fitting the 4000 to the wheel does need to be done carefully as it can drag on the steering. Mine was very stiff until I repositioned it when I bought the boat
Yeah. Fitting the 4000 to the wheel does need to be done carefully as it can drag on the steering. Mine was very stiff until I repositioned it when I bought the boat
Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
My thanks to all who replied.
We now have a brand new mk11 grey wheeldrive fitted plus I have rebuilt the innards of the old black one with a new drive belt from ebay and new set of wheel clamps I found in an online chandlers. The old black one had two busted wheel 'pillars' bodged by PO and disguised as well as a shredded drive belt. I found a video on U tube showing how to drill though the plastic wheel pillar mounts and replace the self tapper screw with through mount set screws and external nuts, duly done and lightly lubricted with sailkote dry lube. I haven't refitted it to test it, as the new one is in place already, but it works OK on the kitchen table. It will now have a nice dry spot in the bottom of a hanging locker, just in case it needs to be pressed into service but my hope is that it's very being there will convince Mr Grey-drive to behave himself.
One final question mind please- when not in use is it best to leave the drive unit clutch released or in the 'on' position to preserve the belt? Does leaving the clutch lever engaged stretch or distort the inner belt maybe? I will leave the boat from now on with the wheel brake on tight, and unless advised otherwise with the drive's clutch 'off' and also put a couple of lines from wheel rim to winches to stop bozos forcing the wheel to turn and maybe breaking something internally again.
My thanks to all who replied.
We now have a brand new mk11 grey wheeldrive fitted plus I have rebuilt the innards of the old black one with a new drive belt from ebay and new set of wheel clamps I found in an online chandlers. The old black one had two busted wheel 'pillars' bodged by PO and disguised as well as a shredded drive belt. I found a video on U tube showing how to drill though the plastic wheel pillar mounts and replace the self tapper screw with through mount set screws and external nuts, duly done and lightly lubricted with sailkote dry lube. I haven't refitted it to test it, as the new one is in place already, but it works OK on the kitchen table. It will now have a nice dry spot in the bottom of a hanging locker, just in case it needs to be pressed into service but my hope is that it's very being there will convince Mr Grey-drive to behave himself.
One final question mind please- when not in use is it best to leave the drive unit clutch released or in the 'on' position to preserve the belt? Does leaving the clutch lever engaged stretch or distort the inner belt maybe? I will leave the boat from now on with the wheel brake on tight, and unless advised otherwise with the drive's clutch 'off' and also put a couple of lines from wheel rim to winches to stop bozos forcing the wheel to turn and maybe breaking something internally again.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Final update. leccy man fitted new drive but had no keys to access below and turn power on to test. When I tried it the pilot control was 'on' but nothing happened if +10 or -10 buttons were pressed
Well I frightened it into action today by taking my self rebuilt old drive down to the boat and plugging that in which duly proved the electronics still worked as did my home DIY repaired drive unit, albeit only held in the hand. when I then re-tried the new drive I reversed the 2 pin motor lead connection plug and bingo, it worked! All seems OK now and the new grey drive is freer to hand steer with when the pilot is not engaged, so a qualified success (prior to a full system test offshore), aside from the all up cost approaching the usual 'Break Out Another Thousand' level or about £600 in real money
Final update. leccy man fitted new drive but had no keys to access below and turn power on to test. When I tried it the pilot control was 'on' but nothing happened if +10 or -10 buttons were pressed
Well I frightened it into action today by taking my self rebuilt old drive down to the boat and plugging that in which duly proved the electronics still worked as did my home DIY repaired drive unit, albeit only held in the hand. when I then re-tried the new drive I reversed the 2 pin motor lead connection plug and bingo, it worked! All seems OK now and the new grey drive is freer to hand steer with when the pilot is not engaged, so a qualified success (prior to a full system test offshore), aside from the all up cost approaching the usual 'Break Out Another Thousand' level or about £600 in real money
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Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Well I spoke too soon because whilst the new drive drives when told to in standby the pilot will not lock on 'auto'. I'm told I need a new compass unit which is a new type of course and this only works with a new typeACU unit and tht needs a new type control head too. all three bits add up to $1500 but the really irritating thing is that I could have bought a complete brand new autopilot with ALL these components in the pack, PLUS the drive unit we already hadalready fitted and this complete pilot is available for $1420. So the EX-spurt now says buy a complete brand new one and sell the drive it comes and which we already have,with on Ebay
If I had known all this initially I would have looked at other maker's autopilots too. This plug and play 'cannot repair anything anymore' philosophy sucks big time and I will NEVER BUY RAYMARINE STUFF again:disgust:
Well I spoke too soon because whilst the new drive drives when told to in standby the pilot will not lock on 'auto'. I'm told I need a new compass unit which is a new type of course and this only works with a new typeACU unit and tht needs a new type control head too. all three bits add up to $1500 but the really irritating thing is that I could have bought a complete brand new autopilot with ALL these components in the pack, PLUS the drive unit we already hadalready fitted and this complete pilot is available for $1420. So the EX-spurt now says buy a complete brand new one and sell the drive it comes and which we already have,with on Ebay
If I had known all this initially I would have looked at other maker's autopilots too. This plug and play 'cannot repair anything anymore' philosophy sucks big time and I will NEVER BUY RAYMARINE STUFF again:disgust:
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mainsail1
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Sorry, I had to laugh at your post!
Raymarine 4000 kit is not up to the job. Don't want to say I told you so, but I will! If it helps I have wasted money on it more than once.
Sorry, I had to laugh at your post!
Raymarine 4000 kit is not up to the job. Don't want to say I told you so, but I will! If it helps I have wasted money on it more than once.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
I didn't choose it I inherited it with the boat and dumping it for an inboard pilot is not an affordable option on a UK pension and hindsight is great if you can afford it up front! Still it is our 27th Wedding anniversary on Saturday and we were wondering what to buy each other, so at least that little dilemma has been solved.:encouragement:
I didn't choose it I inherited it with the boat and dumping it for an inboard pilot is not an affordable option on a UK pension and hindsight is great if you can afford it up front! Still it is our 27th Wedding anniversary on Saturday and we were wondering what to buy each other, so at least that little dilemma has been solved.:encouragement:
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Seems like you wheely types are suffering the same as us tiller types.
Have lots of sympathy re Raymarine - I struggled today with a new refit getting everything to work and failed with the new digital radar.
The boss refuses to buy Raymarine anymore so we only fit it if its supplied by the customer and then we grumble.
Seems like you wheely types are suffering the same as us tiller types.
Have lots of sympathy re Raymarine - I struggled today with a new refit getting everything to work and failed with the new digital radar.
The boss refuses to buy Raymarine anymore so we only fit it if its supplied by the customer and then we grumble.
Avalon
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
If you can get hold of one, fit one of the old Autohelm 3000 drive units and the associated wheel drum and belt. It will work with the head unit from your 4000 and is a much better engineered piece of kit. This combination gave me good service for many years and many thousands of miles (and was originally recommended to me by someone who works at Raymarine).
If you can get hold of one, fit one of the old Autohelm 3000 drive units and the associated wheel drum and belt. It will work with the head unit from your 4000 and is a much better engineered piece of kit. This combination gave me good service for many years and many thousands of miles (and was originally recommended to me by someone who works at Raymarine).
Gypsy
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Did your expert say you needed a new Fluxgate Compass to replace a faulty unit? If he means one of these - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Raymarine-Fluxgate-Compass-M81190-/231583247828?hash=item35eb6fedd4 - they are still available on ebay as this one (in Florida) shows. It is the cheapest I saw in a minute of looking, others at $250.
Actually they are not complicated devices. You should check the cable and ensure +12v is arriving at the compass, I think it is +12V=Red, -12V=screen. If the AP won't lock into auto it implies it is not getting a signal from the fluxgate.
Edit: Just found this Sailnet forum thread on the subject of Fluxgate compass issues. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/71650-raymarine-fluxgate-compass.html. See entry #2 for a way to test your compass with a multimeter.
Don't give up yet, you still have a number of good working parts (and spare motor) so there must be a solution. The brains on this forum will see you through.
Did your expert say you needed a new Fluxgate Compass to replace a faulty unit? If he means one of these - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Raymarine-Fluxgate-Compass-M81190-/231583247828?hash=item35eb6fedd4 - they are still available on ebay as this one (in Florida) shows. It is the cheapest I saw in a minute of looking, others at $250.
Actually they are not complicated devices. You should check the cable and ensure +12v is arriving at the compass, I think it is +12V=Red, -12V=screen. If the AP won't lock into auto it implies it is not getting a signal from the fluxgate.
Edit: Just found this Sailnet forum thread on the subject of Fluxgate compass issues. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/71650-raymarine-fluxgate-compass.html. See entry #2 for a way to test your compass with a multimeter.
Don't give up yet, you still have a number of good working parts (and spare motor) so there must be a solution. The brains on this forum will see you through.
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Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
our 'spurt said we need a new P70 control head a new EV-1 sensor core and a ACU -100 Actuator Control Unit. I had seen the Sailnet threads and quite possibly a new 'old' style fluxgatefrom Ebay would work but then again it might not and we would still be flying on manual. I have also to recognise that I'm paying said ex-spurt to do this work rather than fumble it myself. I'm pretty much 100% post a bad stroke near 3 years back but 'fine and fiddly' stuff is still very taxing as is crawling into tight spots with a torch and multimeter to access bits well hidden away by the original owners. IN hindsight I should have gone for the full replacement pilot option that the 'spurt said might be needed but I thought as it was only the drive unit mechanics that were busted the existing electronics would still be fine but 'spurt was right and I was too optimistic.
We are now going to go with a complete new Evolution EV-100 wheel pilot kit with a Raymarine 3year warranty and this will include another new wheel drive too but we can use the brand new one just fitted to the wheel and either keep the brand new one from the new packaged pilot kit as a spare or sell it on Ebay. Even then we still have working original old black drive unit that I fitted a new belt to and got back working, albeit maybe not as robust as a new one, but again possibly saleable on Ebay for spares.
So thanks again to all for advice and listening to my moans and groans.
PS added, several peeps have told me that the newer software incorporated in the P70 head and ACU-100 andEV-1 compass unit of the Evolution 100 is way better than the original ST4000 too which means hopefully we will gain a little something from the hassle.
our 'spurt said we need a new P70 control head a new EV-1 sensor core and a ACU -100 Actuator Control Unit. I had seen the Sailnet threads and quite possibly a new 'old' style fluxgatefrom Ebay would work but then again it might not and we would still be flying on manual. I have also to recognise that I'm paying said ex-spurt to do this work rather than fumble it myself. I'm pretty much 100% post a bad stroke near 3 years back but 'fine and fiddly' stuff is still very taxing as is crawling into tight spots with a torch and multimeter to access bits well hidden away by the original owners. IN hindsight I should have gone for the full replacement pilot option that the 'spurt said might be needed but I thought as it was only the drive unit mechanics that were busted the existing electronics would still be fine but 'spurt was right and I was too optimistic.
We are now going to go with a complete new Evolution EV-100 wheel pilot kit with a Raymarine 3year warranty and this will include another new wheel drive too but we can use the brand new one just fitted to the wheel and either keep the brand new one from the new packaged pilot kit as a spare or sell it on Ebay. Even then we still have working original old black drive unit that I fitted a new belt to and got back working, albeit maybe not as robust as a new one, but again possibly saleable on Ebay for spares.
So thanks again to all for advice and listening to my moans and groans.
PS added, several peeps have told me that the newer software incorporated in the P70 head and ACU-100 andEV-1 compass unit of the Evolution 100 is way better than the original ST4000 too which means hopefully we will gain a little something from the hassle.
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Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
That is a solution that Raymarine UK came up with many moons ago for our Westerly 33 Ketch we then had after we had busted 3 wheel mount drives in succession and I called them from Biscay when their latest offering also fell apart. We had the 3000 drive fitted by their dealer in Concarneau and it did excellent service combined with theoriginal 4000 head until we sold the boat (with it still working well) some years later I was told that if the wheel mounted drive gets over loaded it breaks, but with the older 3000 type drive all that happens is the external belt slips until the load lessens. it works best with a rudder reference unit too for feedback which back then I did install.
In an ideal world I would always go for a more powerful and robust internal below decks pilot with a linear ram drive going direct on to the rudder quadrant. however we inherited what we have now and changing it would require significant re-hashing of much internal woodwork and associated cabin upholstery in the aft cabin, just to find adequate space to fit the linear type drive ram. This is one feature Beneteau could have designed rather better from the get go but they didn't and we have to live with what we inherited which I suspect was added by the Beneteau importing dealer in the USA as an optionfor the original owner when he purchased it. Ours is a French made Oceanis 36CC imported to the USA, there are quite a few of this model over here that were built by Benny USA ( but not as well by all accounts).
That is a solution that Raymarine UK came up with many moons ago for our Westerly 33 Ketch we then had after we had busted 3 wheel mount drives in succession and I called them from Biscay when their latest offering also fell apart. We had the 3000 drive fitted by their dealer in Concarneau and it did excellent service combined with theoriginal 4000 head until we sold the boat (with it still working well) some years later I was told that if the wheel mounted drive gets over loaded it breaks, but with the older 3000 type drive all that happens is the external belt slips until the load lessens. it works best with a rudder reference unit too for feedback which back then I did install.
In an ideal world I would always go for a more powerful and robust internal below decks pilot with a linear ram drive going direct on to the rudder quadrant. however we inherited what we have now and changing it would require significant re-hashing of much internal woodwork and associated cabin upholstery in the aft cabin, just to find adequate space to fit the linear type drive ram. This is one feature Beneteau could have designed rather better from the get go but they didn't and we have to live with what we inherited which I suspect was added by the Beneteau importing dealer in the USA as an optionfor the original owner when he purchased it. Ours is a French made Oceanis 36CC imported to the USA, there are quite a few of this model over here that were built by Benny USA ( but not as well by all accounts).
cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Not necessarily if the aft cabin "wall" is same as the Beneteau Oceanis 361. I could send you pictures of my installation if you decide to go for a below deck unit.
Not necessarily if the aft cabin "wall" is same as the Beneteau Oceanis 361. I could send you pictures of my installation if you decide to go for a below deck unit.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Thanks, I don't know if the 36cc is the same as the 361 but a) we have a bulky air conditioner and it's associated ductwork and plumbing, installed in the same area and b) our after cabin layout has also been significantly modified, by the original owner, to relocate the standard fore/aft double berth with an extra settee to an athwartships double and increase it to queen+ size and there are also additional stowage shelves and lockers over the standard 36. The wheel type pilots do manage to handle these boats, at least when they are working, and we are not planning anything too boisterous to challenge ours much either. A lot of our usage is simply for motoring up/down the Intracoastal waterway which can get tedious if hand steered, as we are 8-10 fairly tortuous miles from the nearest Atlantic ocean inlet that gets us out to sea proper. a common weekender type trip from here is to go 60 miles north up the 'ditch' to St Augustine ( the USA 's oldest city) and back, more like map reading than proper cruising. :sleeping:
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Thanks, I don't know if the 36cc is the same as the 361 but a) we have a bulky air conditioner and it's associated ductwork and plumbing, installed in the same area and b) our after cabin layout has also been significantly modified, by the original owner, to relocate the standard fore/aft double berth with an extra settee to an athwartships double and increase it to queen+ size and there are also additional stowage shelves and lockers over the standard 36. The wheel type pilots do manage to handle these boats, at least when they are working, and we are not planning anything too boisterous to challenge ours much either. A lot of our usage is simply for motoring up/down the Intracoastal waterway which can get tedious if hand steered, as we are 8-10 fairly tortuous miles from the nearest Atlantic ocean inlet that gets us out to sea proper. a common weekender type trip from here is to go 60 miles north up the 'ditch' to St Augustine ( the USA 's oldest city) and back, more like map reading than proper cruising. :sleeping:
View attachment 52200View attachment 52200
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Gypsy
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
Well, it sounds like a case of "the teeth are now OK but the gums have to come out"! Anyway a new system will be better and smarter.
Good luck with the refit.
Well, it sounds like a case of "the teeth are now OK but the gums have to come out"! Anyway a new system will be better and smarter.
Good luck with the refit.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Re: st4000 wheel pilot Update
or more correctly, the teeth are knackered and you need a full set of implants! i think the new system will be better and smarter, just a shame it had to come to that when I had thought, indeed hoped that my existing teeth would be gnashing right to the end..:nonchalance:
or more correctly, the teeth are knackered and you need a full set of implants! i think the new system will be better and smarter, just a shame it had to come to that when I had thought, indeed hoped that my existing teeth would be gnashing right to the end..:nonchalance: