Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
You're doing it again, this thread is no fun if someone is being sensible and grown up. Still I imagine the Daily Mail crowd will be along in a moment.
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St Helier
- Thread starter Ehecatl
- Start date
You're doing it again, this thread is no fun if someone is being sensible and grown up. Still I imagine the Daily Mail crowd will be along in a moment.
Bru
Well-Known Member
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the Daily Mail has got to do with this, apart from another chance for you to be condescendingly rude to people you don't perceive as having your cutting edge insight...
Having run teams of volunteers, including being a director / trustee of a national charity, yes, to you do have to balance legal responsibilities and it isn't easy. However, when any organisation starts having serious problems in delivering its mission, on a repeated basis, then the "centre" can't always hide behind the excuse of "it's all the volunteers being bolshie".
We've seen the same bullying culture coming into HMCG, where people with a few months management training and a new promotion are lording it over people with 20 years sharp end experience - funnily enough, all delivered without killing themselves or others.
The common factor in both organisations here is a newly burgeoning middle management layer, anxious to prove themselves, but with rarely actually having done the job of the people they are responsible for - and little appreciation of the people management skills needed for volunteers.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
Bru;6272440 On the face of it said:
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Wel K Kid I have some sympathy and understanding of the sittuation presented above, but, make the following comments
A charity like the RNLI has not been giving the Volunteers a Blind Eye approach they the Volunteers have been doing the job required of them and the RNLI at the same time.
The current disagreement in Jersey is about what is considered to be the job of the RNLI and what is not.
I have a understanding about the roles of Charities these days and might suggest that what might be better is to the Trustees to get a set of Balls and pursue the Charities aims and objectives, whatever the reading of the so called rules.
Might also mention that if a Charity does not follow it's proper course and achieve good results on its aims is indeed failing it's dependants, and so probably best if it's present Trustees stand aside and allow others, possibly with more balls, determination and common sense to do the job ?
It's all to easy these days for a Charity and it's Management to fail miserably while fulfilling it's legal obligations as it sees and understands them.
Perhaps it's time for the RNLI to be disbanded in favour of far smaller independent units all able to operate within the current legal requirements and at the same time prosper.
Might mention that there seems to be a breed of Managers emerging within the Charities who's objectives and motivations are at odds with the base charities motivations and objectives, best described as somewhat skewed .
A charity like the RNLI has not been giving the Volunteers a Blind Eye approach they the Volunteers have been doing the job required of them and the RNLI at the same time.
The current disagreement in Jersey is about what is considered to be the job of the RNLI and what is not.
I have a understanding about the roles of Charities these days and might suggest that what might be better is to the Trustees to get a set of Balls and pursue the Charities aims and objectives, whatever the reading of the so called rules.
Might also mention that if a Charity does not follow it's proper course and achieve good results on its aims is indeed failing it's dependants, and so probably best if it's present Trustees stand aside and allow others, possibly with more balls, determination and common sense to do the job ?
It's all to easy these days for a Charity and it's Management to fail miserably while fulfilling it's legal obligations as it sees and understands them.
Perhaps it's time for the RNLI to be disbanded in favour of far smaller independent units all able to operate within the current legal requirements and at the same time prosper.
Might mention that there seems to be a breed of Managers emerging within the Charities who's objectives and motivations are at odds with the base charities motivations and objectives, best described as somewhat skewed .
Seajet
...
CaptPopeye,
spot on.
If I were say, a Richard Branson / Bruce Wayne type philanthropist and funded a top notch lifeboat, I'd be happy for the skilled volunteers to use it helping their chums if they had engine failures etc, all good practice and such boats need to be used or things seize up, same as aircraft - all to the good for the local community.
I know an RNLI admin type, how he made a good living out of *-all sailing / seamanship/common sense skills beats me; the RNLI should be stripped back to basics, the admin lot jettissoned and the front line crews given a large portion of the currently mis-spent funds.
spot on.
If I were say, a Richard Branson / Bruce Wayne type philanthropist and funded a top notch lifeboat, I'd be happy for the skilled volunteers to use it helping their chums if they had engine failures etc, all good practice and such boats need to be used or things seize up, same as aircraft - all to the good for the local community.
I know an RNLI admin type, how he made a good living out of *-all sailing / seamanship/common sense skills beats me; the RNLI should be stripped back to basics, the admin lot jettissoned and the front line crews given a large portion of the currently mis-spent funds.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I think it was Billy Hibbs ( Andy's father & an earlier cox) who told me the story about a lady that donated a large sum to buy the lifeboat at jersey (not sure if it was the current one). The sum was in the £m's.
She was invited to the launching party & her offspring were said to nearly have a heart attack when she was heard to say " I have had such a lovely time that I feel like donating for another one!!"
Now if i had donated all that money for that lifeboat; heard that it had gone to a casualty & then handed the tow to some money grabbing outfit just before it reached the harbour; I think that I would be a little bit more than "miffed" to say the least
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is. The RNLI cleared Andy Hibbs' of the initial accusation. From the RNLI side the problem was Andy's EMails. From Andy's side it seems to be he just doesn't like the way the RNLI/Jersey CG/St Helier Harbour are run and would rather be an independant. Fair enough on both sides AFAIC.
Maybe. We all love the independents. However, a national organization can fund raise in (say) the Midlands and other places miles away from the Stations themselves. Hard to see Gaffers waving collecting Tins in Nottingham. Plus a National organization has the funds to develop bespoke vessels for (say) beach launches and subsidise stations that don't raise much cash. So there are advantages as well as disadvantages to a National Charity.
On the subject, should Lifeboats even be a charity? They're an emergency service.
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Seajet
...
Mark-1
On your last point I completely agree, this is the 21st Century, we were expecting International Rescue and Thunderbirds by now !
So why is it we can spend £50 billion on Brexit ( which I'm in favour of by the way ) but we have to have charities doing whip-rounds for lifeboats and hospital helicopters - I'm a supporter of the Kent/Surrey/Sussex ambulance helicopter but I should not be required - remind me again how much MP's are paid - including back-handers from commercial concerns like property developers - to sit on their fat arses ?
On your last point I completely agree, this is the 21st Century, we were expecting International Rescue and Thunderbirds by now !
So why is it we can spend £50 billion on Brexit ( which I'm in favour of by the way ) but we have to have charities doing whip-rounds for lifeboats and hospital helicopters - I'm a supporter of the Kent/Surrey/Sussex ambulance helicopter but I should not be required - remind me again how much MP's are paid - including back-handers from commercial concerns like property developers - to sit on their fat arses ?
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Hi Mark, humm, I think that from reading up on this issue, the real crux of the matter was the actual role of the Lifeboat in the rescue, being criticizsed, all the other 'tosh' was probably a smoke screen intended to recover the RNLI from a mistaken decision; after all the emails were probably as a result of the bad decision by the RNLI top management, so its a Cart before the Horse situation.
Re donations - well these days with the advent of On line and Facebook, Donations can be made from anywhere in the Country and World by donation via a specially set up Donating System, its widely used and appears to be quite sucessful, if one chooses the Provider carefully.
The RNLI could well be split up into its various functions, Design, Build, donations, Publicity, etc etc and so not get involved with the apparent difficulties in actually running a proper Life Saving operation.
Re donations - well these days with the advent of On line and Facebook, Donations can be made from anywhere in the Country and World by donation via a specially set up Donating System, its widely used and appears to be quite sucessful, if one chooses the Provider carefully.
The RNLI could well be split up into its various functions, Design, Build, donations, Publicity, etc etc and so not get involved with the apparent difficulties in actually running a proper Life Saving operation.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
We don't need to guess or say 'probably' any more- it's all here from Andy Hibbs' POV:
https://m.facebook.com/JerseyAction...4179202469/1475713072535913/?type=3&source=48
He was cleared of launching the boat without authority, and he says himself he was sacked over the E-Mails. (Which is kind of irrelvant because he was reinstated.)
He was sacked over the E-Mails, but reinstated. Then crew decided to leave due to what they regard as 'micro-managment' from the RNLI.
If you're 'reading up' includes a better source than Andy Hibbs' own version of events post it so we can all read it.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
All I can see is the headline, how do we get to read his side of the story?
I find it hard to believe that someone was offered an RNLI medal to turn his back on the crew, as stated on that page!!
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
The whole article is there, as a series of images, not sure why you can't see it.
I struggle with the idea that a CG can 'order' a lifeboat to land a casualty in a dangerous place. Seems unlikely. However, broadly, Andy's story seems plausible and trumps other people's guesswork and conjecture IMHO.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Thirty would be more traditional. Silver of course.
Of course the whole situation is hard to believe. For a start that it appears they sacked him for using a mild sweary word under quite a bit of provocation. Believed to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcPDHkX1qWA
I've seen and heard a lot worse in heated debates without it ever getting formalised.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Having been at the sharp end of HM Coastguard's "reforms", then they absolutely should be - anything that keeps organisations out of the clutches of government, and able to do their job properly, should be welcomed.
The air ambulances now operate multi-aircraft fleets, have started night flying, and are meeting the needs of the areas they serve.
Contract that with HMCG, bases cut and now massive internal cost cutting going on, and NPAS (national police air service) - bases cut, taskings down 30%, and police on the ground going unsupported.
Keep the state away from things we actually need.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
They can't, not even the odd outfit which calls itself Jersey Coastguard.
However, an ego filled individual can get the hump when his "instructions" aren't followed, I've seen that even within HMCG.
People forget coastguards in the UK coordinate, not control.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
It's certainly hard to believe, and it's not what happened.
Andy H sent multiple e-mails and we don't know the detail of their content at all. He says he was 'straight to the point' and paraphrases his mails as 'basically saying' the report was a load of "insert mild sweary word here" but he doesn't say he used that word or any other sweary words in the e-mails.
What he does say is that as a result of the e-mails he was sacked. (Although later reinstated.)
I'm not suprised.
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Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
humm quite agree with your comments :encouragement:
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm just might be that in the New Order (supposedly) of Charities re H&S and Who's in charge that some Management Waller took objection to a Volunteer challenging a direction from the Office ?
As I understand it, now there is NO such thing as a Volunteer in Charities, its all Employees but those who perform the task /job on a Voluntary Basis do not get any remuneration and are TOLD what to do by an Employee . I can well see that in an Institution like the RNLI this has problems, as the real doers are the life-boatmen who are volunteers they have the skills, knowledge & know the ropes etc, all a Management can do is say /instruct not to do or to so do. = problems