SSR registration

[Black Sheep]

I registered a boat on the SSR in the autumn (new registration). They gave me the option to upload various documents, including Bill of Sale, but I don't think I did. No problem.

I registered a boat on the SSR in April this year (new registration). They gave me the option to upload various documents, including Bill of Sale, but I didn't upload any. They emailed me a week or so later asking for a copy of the bill of sale.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I registered a boat on the SSR in the autumn (new registration). They gave me the option to upload various documents, including Bill of Sale, but I don't think I did. No problem.

I registered a boat on the SSR in April this year (new registration). They gave me the option to upload various documents, including Bill of Sale, but I didn't upload any. They emailed me a week or so later asking for a copy of the bill of sale.

Hi
By what posted else where it does seen they are asking for bill of sale although some haven't been asked .
No one so far have said any thing about vat prove
Just have to wonder how long before they do .

 

[LadyInBed]

Dec 2020, nothing new then.

 

[madabouttheboat]

I've got a little fishing boat as well as my main boat. I might put that on the SSR in case I ever venture across the Channel (a real possibility once we open up again). The boat was bough on eBay a few years ago as a wreck with no engine and no trailer. I have no bill of sale. It was built some point in the 1970s and I have no VAT paperwork. I wonder what they will make of it.

 

[lustyd]

You might not have a BoS but you have a transaction record on Ebay showing the value when you purchased it. That could be used to calculate VAT owed, if you're unable to prove VAT status either way. I assume you also can't prove the origin of it, in which case you might be liable for coding the vessel as an import. It's unlikely these will happen, but they could.

 

[Sandy]

And was you ask for what I have been told and posted.

Yes, hence my comment about the shoddy website.

I have a question in with my MP about VAT status on a 35 year old boat that hopefully he might get answered by HMRC on a third attempt.

 

[madabouttheboat]

You might not have a BoS but you have a transaction record on Ebay showing the value when you purchased it. That could be used to calculate VAT owed, if you're unable to prove VAT status either way. I assume you also can't prove the origin of it, in which case you might be liable for coding the vessel as an import. It's unlikely these will happen, but they could.

eBay only keeps records for a certain period. This has long passed. I have no concern ref the VAT liability, but would be interested to know how the SSR people would proceed. I don't think coding would come up. Its a small open boat with outboard power. Nothing too it really, just GRP with a few bits bolted on. Built in the UK and almost certainly never left these shores.

 

[Tranona]

You might not have a BoS but you have a transaction record on Ebay showing the value when you purchased it. That could be used to calculate VAT owed, if you're unable to prove VAT status either way. I assume you also can't prove the origin of it, in which case you might be liable for coding the vessel as an import. It's unlikely these will happen, but they could.

Why do you think there is any liability to pay VAT? Sales between two private people are not "chargeable events" and therefore no VAT is payable. It is irrelevant whether there is any written record of the sale or not.

Equally why would anybody, least of all HMRC think that an old fishing boat is an illegal import. They have much more important things to do. There is no legal requirement to keep copies of VAT receipts although if you did import a boat and pay VAT it would be wise to keep the HMRC receipt for duty (if applicable) and VAT.

 

[Rappey]

asking for bill of sale

That could be tricky if you built your own boat 40 years ago and still own it. What bill of sale?

 

[lustyd]

Why do you think there is any liability to pay VAT? Sales between two private people are not "chargeable events" and therefore no VAT is payable. It is irrelevant whether there is any written record of the sale or not.

Equally why would anybody, least of all HMRC think that an old fishing boat is an illegal import. They have much more important things to do. There is no legal requirement to keep copies of VAT receipts although if you did import a boat and pay VAT it would be wise to keep the HMRC receipt for duty (if applicable) and VAT.

I’m not actually concerned. My point was that if the status is unknown then in theory VAT would be deemed unpaid. The point of the thread was that a new and seemingly unhealthy interest in status has crept in to the procedure, so it’s kind of relevant if that continues to its logical (to a bureaucrat) conclusion

 

[sailaboutvic]

. There is no legal requirement to keep copies of VAT receipts although if you did import a boat and pay VAT it would be wise to keep the HMRC receipt for duty (if applicable) and VAT.

You may say this and as I pointed out else where, its not what HMRC are suggesting,
They actually suggesting people should keep,VAT payment prove if they are stopped .,
Now since in the UK we don't have to carry any ID not even a driving license I find this very strange suggesting and wonder where its all leading too .

 

[lustyd]

Don’t have to carry ID yet you mean. They’re working hard to change that!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Don’t have to carry ID yet you mean. They’re working hard to change that!

Although I agree with rules to keep people safe from covid , covid has give government an excuse to find more ways to control everyone lifes and I dont expect that to change even after covid come to a end , thats if it does

 

[escapism]

Renewed our Part 3 (SSR) registration in March, and there was definitely a new process in place with 2 stages. 1. Establish your boats validity to re-register 2. Complete the re-registration form and pay. The document scans I needed to upload to do this were the Bill of Sale, Passport, old SSR certificate. There were some alternatives regarding the documentation required.

Seemed to me that there was no VAT related info required, but that they were establishing that the applicant was UK resident and owned the boat in question. This last seemed a bit odd, as I always thought that Part 3 registration did not imply ownership.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Is it just me finding this all a bit concerning?
SSR once ran by the RYA , 2 mins form filling pay your money and away you go .
Now its run by the UK government lots more personlly info , how are home build going to show bill os sale.
Is there going to be a time when they want VATprove? And if its not UK vat status you can't register or the boat has to be kept in the UK , who know where this is going to lead .
Other then when buying a boat it will be a bit earlier to see who owners it but even then would any of us buy a boat without prove who the owner is .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

This is new , probably in the last couple of months .
But a few people have now said they wanted prove , bill of sale

I had my ex wife do mine whilst I was in Greece, from UK last September, it's definitely more complicated than before ,I cannot remember being ask directly about VAT.
But Bill of Sale was asked for and passport details ,so I exposé that once they have that from an EU broker they can see that it's a private sale including vat.?
Cheers
Bob

 

[Tranona]

I’m not actually concerned. My point was that if the status is unknown then in theory VAT would be deemed unpaid. The point of the thread was that a new and seemingly unhealthy interest in status has crept in to the procedure, so it’s kind of relevant if that continues to its logical (to a bureaucrat) conclusion

Your assumption is incorrect. What triggers VAT suspicions is a chargeable event having happened where VAT has not been paid or accounted for. The most common situation is with personally imported boats, but another is related to boats owned by VAT registered entities, particularly if they are subsequently sold, or VAT is shown as an input in returns, or if the entity becomes insolvent with the boat as an asset. The second type would be picked up through the normal VAT inspection regime and would not normally involve a private owner.

The former is what exercises people here simply because it is the only way a private individual can be held accountable for VAT. Unsurprisingly given the issues related to VAT that are the consequence of Brexit the doom mongers suddenly come up with images of VAT snoopers going round looking for boats that don't have evidence of VAT. Those of us with long memories recall exactly the same doom in the mid 90s going right through until roughly 2010. It is true that some people fell foul of the new VAT rules (as well as failing to comply with the RCD post 1997) and boats were impounded etc. However the numbers involved were tiny and there was no indication of any general purge to "catch people out". Logically why would HMRC waste any time in random checking when the chances of finding offenders (and the amounts involved) are so small?

I expect we will get a regular flow of stories simply because there are far more boats this time around that will move into the UK and theoretically be liable for VAT. The vast majority will be able to use one of the reliefs and legally avoid VAT. However there is likely to be an increase in boats bought privately in the EU and sailed to the UK without declaring and no doubt some of these will be caught by Border Force and HMRC. Equally some will escape (just as many boats have come from the Channel Islands in the past) and "disappear" like illegal immigrants. Future buyers should therefore look very carefully for any signs that a boat has entered the UK this way.

 

[lustyd]

You write as if you are stating facts rather than your opinion.

You've ignored the main thrust of this thread, and that's that there already is a new requirement to show VAT status when registering your boat on the SSR. The only real way to prove VAT status is to have both a transaction evidence and location evidence, although right now they are only requesting proof of a transaction, these things historically slide towards bureacracy not away from it, so as soon as someone realises that an old boat might have been first imported in 2021 the requirements will also grow. Also there is no reason to believe that a VAT receipt on a boat is the latest transaction against that boat. If the government decide to get serious about tracking this (and this thread is showing they might be) then there is a very real issue here.

 

[sailaboutvic]

You write as if you are stating facts rather than your opinion.

You've ignored the main thrust of this thread, and that's that there already is a new requirement to show VAT status when registering your boat on the SSR. The only real way to prove VAT status is to have both a transaction evidence and location evidence, although right now they are only requesting proof of a transaction, these things historically slide towards bureacracy not away from it, so as soon as someone realises that an old boat might have been first imported in 2021 the requirements will also grow. Also there is no reason to believe that a VAT receipt on a boat is the latest transaction against that boat. If the government decide to get serious about tracking this (and this thread is showing they might be) then there is a very real issue here.

At the moment only one person have suggested they been ask for vat prove no one else here or on other sailing forum have said other wise , but after saying that there been mix report of what people been asked to produce, so maybe other too may have been ask.

Like you I too belive this is all leading some where we not going to like.
Of course you going to find some here who sitting pretty with boats they brought in the UK and have no intention of sailing anywhere poo pooing any thing that dont effect them , but that normally the way until it does effect them , then they are the first to shout about it.
It so easy to say HMRC not going to do this or that , why should they ? and its stupid saying so .
But it I wrote here three years ago the world was about to shut down , people would had said the same .
Bottom line ,all goverment are looking at ways to claw money of anyone they can vat is a easy route .

 

[LadyInBed]

BofS is going to be interesting with my boat.
It was home completed, not by me, and after I bought it I changed the boats name, so the BofS doesn't match the boat's name and there is no HIN on the BofS.