Squeezing them in...

prv said:
Michael Green's Coarse Cruising describes four adults (in some cases not even particularly good friends, though that might have been effect rather than cause :) ) routinely sailing from the Solent to France and the Netherlands in, I think, a 19 footer.

Different worlds :)

Pete
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And an outstanding publication about sailing, if ever I read one.

Although on the way out of Emsworth years ago I did see (and give wide berth to) My Poll, sat on her mooring. I guess just anouther confirmation that such terrible things can happen before you get to the high seas... :)
 
My wife and I sailed back from the Scilly Isles with My Father in Law and MIL on a Westerly Pageant, 23ft. We managed fine - we were used to camping and happy in a tiny tent. Lots of families have a camping phase when kids are young and can sleep anywhere and are easily amazed? That's a great time to go sailing I reckon, in something cheap simple and easily handled.

The trouble starts though when you are invited aboard someone's 35 or 40 footer and everybody goes wow. Try to avoid invitations to much bigger boats!

Sailing is all about the Sea and getting involved with it, the challenge, the excitement, the thrill of entering unknown ports and tying up. It's a cliche, but there's more fun to be had with a small boat than a big one. We started out in a West Wight Potter. We went aground on Chichester Bar so we got out and pushed for a while until the water got deeper. A day or two later with no wind we rowed her all the way from Bembridge back to Chi Harbour.

Set a budget, find a boat that has been lovingly cared-for (any make) with enough berths and a good inventory, and go sailing while the kids still want to.
 
garvellachs said:
My wife and I sailed back from the Scilly Isles with My Father in Law and MIL on a Westerly Pageant, 23ft. We managed fine - we were used to camping and happy in a tiny tent. Lots of families have a camping phase when kids are young and can sleep anywhere and are easily amazed? That's a great time to go sailing I reckon, in something cheap simple and easily handled.

The trouble starts though when you are invited aboard someone's 35 or 40 footer and everybody goes wow. Try to avoid invitations to much bigger boats!

Sailing is all about the Sea and getting involved with it, the challenge, the excitement, the thrill of entering unknown ports and tying up. It's a cliche, but there's more fun to be had with a small boat than a big one. We started out in a West Wight Potter. We went aground on Chichester Bar so we got out and pushed for a while until the water got deeper. A day or two later with no wind we rowed her all the way from Bembridge back to Chi Harbour.

Set a budget, find a boat that has been lovingly cared-for (any make) with enough berths and a good inventory, and go sailing while the kids still want to.
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You've nailed it!!! Small boat, and while the kids still want to........
 
There’s enough water and places to go just in Chichester harbour for small kids,shame there are not many places to buy food etc or andbus services like existed at Itchenor
 
ossian72 said:
I know it is all relative... but what size small cruiser would you recommend for two adults, and three children 13, 8 and 4...

I currently squeeze us all into a pop-top VW T25 camper and will be employing similar tactics on the water ... (we get on well hahaha)

Flip-flopping between lift-keel and bilge-keeler for reasons of space below deck and intrusion...

Would love to hear your seafaring experience of the the old one liner “how many people can you fit in a ....”

Thanks!
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Take a look at the Hunter Legend H260/270. Will sleep 4 adults + 2 Children, Lifting keel/rudder of which doesn't infringe on the saloon space, trailerable, easy mast raising, separate heads and which is a must is that it has a large cockpit, which easily takes 6 adults.
 
Bobc said:
Sensible minimum is about 26ft I would say.

Find an old bilge keel Jaguar 27. That'll do the job.
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I've got a Jaguar 27. No chance of being comfortable with five people for any length of time. Having said that, it's for sale for whatever I can get for it. (It's been criminally underused for the past couple of years), so feel free to come and take a look! It's in Chichester Marina.
 
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We bought a 28’ fin keel - old thing 2 years ago. It’ll take us where we want to go, not be too much of a handful and good to learn on, but the family is already talking of upgrading to something around the 34’ mark. That’s for a family of 4 with kids of 12 and 8.

Get whatever will work for you handling wise - and be prepared to upgrade when and if the brood get the bug. Assuming they haven’t already done so...
 
We used to go on holidays around the Dutch waterways on our Sigma 33 as a family of 6. I would say that this was much too small. Some issues:
- two children had to share the forecabin v-berth which meant much arguing about whose feet were in the other person's space. This ceases to be funny quite early into a 2 week trip.
- another child had to be in the pilot berth in the saloon. There is nothing more unfair than being sent to bed and lying in your bunk watching your family continue to play cards/read etc.
- there was not enough stowage for clothing so all our bags and sleeping bags had to be moved into the forecabin every morning, then onto the saloon table/floor every night. This gets very tedious.
- because the forecabin was full of bags during the day there was absolutely nowhere to go to get away from other people until we stopped. This causes friction and/or reduces the distance you can travel between stops.
- there is no built-in fridge and little food stowage so shopping had to be done frequently, again restricting where you can go.

If you are planning to undertake holidays/any trip longer than a week I would look for:
- separate heads compartment
- a dedicated bunk per person
- enough stowage that every used bunk is clear during the day
- for young children bunks that are separate from the saloon (either forecabin, aft cabin or quarterberth with curtain)
- no sharing of v-berths unless the foot end is very generous (alternatively send the children to bed and retire there with your partner)

All this can be achieved in well under 30' if you look at modern (post 2000?) high volume cruisers.
 
TLouth7 said:
We used to go on holidays around the Dutch waterways on our Sigma 33 as a family of 6. I would say that this was much too small. Some issues:
- two children had to share the forecabin v-berth which meant much arguing about whose feet were in the other person's space. This ceases to be funny quite early into a 2 week trip.
- another child had to be in the pilot berth in the saloon. There is nothing more unfair than being sent to bed and lying in your bunk watching your family continue to play cards/read etc.
- there was not enough stowage for clothing so all our bags and sleeping bags had to be moved into the forecabin every morning, then onto the saloon table/floor every night. This gets very tedious.
- because the forecabin was full of bags during the day there was absolutely nowhere to go to get away from other people until we stopped. This causes friction and/or reduces the distance you can travel between stops.
- there is no built-in fridge and little food stowage so shopping had to be done frequently, again restricting where you can go.

If you are planning to undertake holidays/any trip longer than a week I would look for:
- separate heads compartment
- a dedicated bunk per person
- enough stowage that every used bunk is clear during the day
- for young children bunks that are separate from the saloon (either forecabin, aft cabin or quarterberth with curtain)
- no sharing of v-berths unless the foot end is very generous (alternatively send the children to bed and retire there with your partner)
.
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I fuly concur. we did try 2 weeks with 6 in my 31 ft boat in the canals once but during stops at Amsterdam & ostend the crew went into a hotel & left my wife & I for the night
I found 3 a nuisance because my daughter sleeps up forward , My wife in the saloon & I aft
Every time ( about 100 times a day) my daughter wants to get to her berth I have to move from the saloon seat or lift my feet up on the berth to let her between me & the table. I then suffer a bum in my face as she goes past. After the first 20 or so times it becomes more than annoying.

I recall one time in Middleburgh ( 3 blokes & 3 b"y women"") when we decided to go for a meal-
I got off. my son got of my mate got off, my wife got off, finally after loads of faffing--my daughter & daughter in law got off, whilst I paced up & down with my wife glaring at me daring me to say to say " get a d"d move on
I got back on & locked the hatch--20 mins gone already!!!
Just as I got off, daughter say " Oh I forgot my coat"
Get back on, unlock boat, daughter goes below, moves bedding etc. opens locker gets bag gets coat puts it all back, closes locker gets off I lock boat & get off
Daugher in law says " Do you think I ought to take my coat as well?"
I threw the keys at the wife & said "you sort it" & walked away
Try that for 2 b''y weeks

The wife plays golf --
I go single handed sailing--
We get on better that way!!!
 
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oldmanofthehills said:
The decision on lift keel and bilge is not one for space. Lift keel if you ever want to trail it, but raising mast without crane on a 26 or 27 footer makes it a rare move only. Bilge keelers can have drying moorings and are less vulnerable to damage from rocks on the bottom than dried out lift keels, but are much harder to get on trailer. Having had a lift keeler I wouldn't bother.

Even a 26ft or 27ft will be tight if you want to do more than a few nights away, certainly don't go smaller. You can have room for crew but not for a change of clothing, and in wet weather that's an issue. Better to have an older but bigger boat as you wont be racing, provided its modern enough to have suitable layout - forepeak berths, separate heads, galley usable with crew still not all out of bunks etc.

Good luck, with your search. Jaguar 27 not bad, and there are many others out there and prices are ridiculously low. What is your budget?
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I'm afraid that's not right, lift keels are mainly of use for drying moorings and exploring places; I've had my Anderson for 41 years and the only time she's been trailed was from the builders' yard to us for fit out then to the club; same goes for most of the class, the boat is too heavy and complex re running rigging to mes about trailer sailing, a concept I reckon deeply flawed anyway.

Nobody expected to trail the Superseal 26, Evolution 25 & 26, Seal 28 etc let alone the Barracuda ! :)
 
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