Squadron 58 or Azimut 55

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mikesyam

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Well after a unexpected delay I should at last have the money for a new boat in the next few weeks, lucky I know but just cannot decide between a Squadron 58 or a Azimut 55, both 2005 models, love them both but can only afford one!
So opinions please and why.
Thanks Mike
 
Congrats on all that

There's no right answer of course. I've had 2 Sq58s and looked hard at Azi 55. They're both excellent, both 9-point-something out of 10 boats, and this whole debate is whether the Sq is 9.6 out of ten and the Azi 9.1, or vice versa. Neither boat is a bad buy!

It depends if you care about the mid cabin, which i don't but many people do. If you must have the mid cabin, and are prepared to make some sacrifices to have it, then get the Azi. Otherwise, get the Sq and benefit from a lot of things that are better than the Azi. The Sq58 advantages over the Azi, to offset the lack of mid cabin, are, in no partic order:

1. The small mid cabin, making the Sq a 5-cabin boat. Mid cabin has choices on fit out, but most have the utility room. I have in this space a full 60cm washing m/c, full 60cm tumble drier, freezer, Pullman crew/kids bed, Tecma WC, loads of storage
2. Far superior flybridge. Great 9-seater lunch table. Fly helm is best in business, with 3 seats and space for 2 x 14inch nav screens that you can actually reach
3. Nicer lower helm, where two can sit (so it's not so lonely and you can have a helm and a nav person, which imho you need at night)
4. Different internal feel in that the step up from saloon to dining area is further aft in the Azi, to create the mid cabin headroom, whereas it is further forward in the Sq58 so the lounge is bigger. also the Azi dining bench is a bit of a bench, not sociable, whereas the Sq58 dining curves around more
5. Brighter cabins. The sq58 portholes are 2x size of Azi's
6. Midships side door and internal fly stairs on Sq58 , neither on Azi
7. Better technical systems in the Sq imho. Way bigger water 1100litres compared with 640 in Azi. 640 just aint enough
8. Proper flat foredeck on Sq, more befitting of a big boat, whereas on the Azi there is no flat deck and it is all sloping fibreglass that droops down to the nose

BUT those are just my views, and your wish list will be different. As I said they're both 9+ out of 10 boats. Last point is that I think the Sq58 is more saleable. Essex Boatyards (who are the main authority in UK on this subject) tell me they have not had a Sq58 in stock for much longer than a month in recent times, and have a virtual waitlist for recent used Sq58s. (The ones that hang around are the overpriced ones on brokerage)

I've done 10,000nm and 1000hrs++ in 2 Sq58s and think they're great seaboats. Engines very quiet esp on the flybridge. I can't compare with Azi

If you PM details of the actual Sq58 I'll tell you if I know anything about it. also i have the MBY test on both boats (I tyhink) as pdfs and can email to you

So if I were in your shoes, and I was twice, I'd choose the Sq58. But don't listen to me: buy what you you prefer :-)
 
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I also looked at both, and agree all jfm's comments. For me the small saloon and lack of internal stairs were the big turn off's on the Azi, in comparison to the Sq58 and the P57 we eventually bought. They're both kind of personal choice things though, and I think you'll be happy whichever you go for.
 
mikesyam said:
Well after a unexpected delay I should at last have the money for a new boat in the next few weeks, lucky I know but just cannot decide between a Squadron 58 or a Azimut 55, both 2005 models, love them both but can only afford one!
So opinions please and why.
Thanks Mike
Click to expand...

I'll third that. I looked at the AZ55 recently myself and I was slightly disappointed. The master cabin is not really a full beam master cabin and I don't think it actually offers that much more space than the forward cabin on the Sq58. Also jfm is right, the saloon in the Sq58 feels bigger than the AZ55. The lack of internal steps to the flybridge is a big minus too for me but I understand some peeps don't feel that way. I also agree with jfm that the 4th internal cabin on the Sq58, whether you use it as a cabin or a storage area is a really useful space
IMHO, the Sq58 is a more saleable boat than the AZ55, at least as far as the UK market is concerned so resale should be easier. The other consideration is currency. I don't know whether the AZ55 you're looking at is priced in Euros but if it is, my guess is that Sterling will appreciate over the next few years against the Euro, in which case you could be looking at an exchange rate loss on the AZ55 if you're financing this in Sterling and thats before any depreciation.
The AZ55 is a lovely boat but I think the Sq58 probably ticks more boxes
 
From an engineers point of view the Squadrons build quality is far higher than that of the Azimut.

Pull down a few pannels or have a good look around the bilges and you will see.
 
Here comes a typical Azimut praising from me!

I can't disagree with any of the positive comments above about the SQ58 - it's clearly a great boat that has proved itself over and over.

However, if you're going to keep it in the UK and want something a little different from anything else in the marina, then surely the Azi 55 has to be the answer. I love the mirrored, sharks-fin windows and sweeping lines - as well as the cream gelcoat. Although some might say the '55' is beginning to look a little dated, IMHO it still looks great and will turn many heads.
 
Is the Az55 comfortable on the FB helm seats.
I think it was an Az 62 that had an awful helm seat.
The Squaddie on the other hand has much better seating.

I just think that Fairline lost their way about 3/4 years ago.
Not to have a mid full beam cabin boat at 55 ish feet was a mistake IMO
They did have the 66 or was it a 62 or a 64 - I got confused
No bathing platform so we went the Princess way.

They are back on track now though.

Out of the two - Az or Sq - I'd choose the Sq
More class.
 
Hurricane said:
I just think that Fairline lost their way about 3/4 years ago.
Not to have a mid full beam cabin boat at 55 ish feet was a mistake IMO
Click to expand...
Whilst I have to agree that it's a mistake from a marketing viewpoint, because the customers nowadays ask for that solution even on smaller boats, I had to reconsider FL reasons for sticking to the Sq58 layout for so long, after seeing one of them in flesh.
The utility room placed between the guests cabins and the e/r, with its separate access, is absolutely brilliant, and it allows for a much better space optimization compared to any midship master cabins layouts on similarly sized boat.
I didn't find the FB as spacious as I expected from a 58' though, but I'm a bit spoiled in this respect. And I agree it's better than the AZ55, anyway.
 
Hurricane said:
Not to have a mid full beam cabin boat at 55 ish feet was a mistake IMO
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you 100% from a general marketing pov, becuase that's what the market wanted, even though personally I'm glad they didn't becuase I like the classic Sq58

What they should have done imho is make a Sq58 evo, with a raised gunwhale, and put in a mid master cabin, then done something clever to tuck in a utility room. But keeping the flybridge and other things. They'd have got loads of Sq58 trade-uppers, and it would be a much better boat than whatever has replaced the sq58 (either the 55 or the 65, I'm not sure which), which are ok but not as special as the 58 imho. For 58 afficionados I reckon the only trade up to go to now is the 78, which is quite a step

But sorry, thread drifting. Yup I'd still say Sq58 out of the Azi/Sq choice, but I do see that many others would disagree. Indeed, more Azi55s have been built than Sq58. Sq58 was 210 boats from 2002-2009 model year, whereas Azi 55 and 55evo was 400 or so in the same period, I think, from numbers that PowerYacht has given
 
jfm said:
For 58 afficionados I reckon the only trade up to go to now is the 78, which is quite a step
Click to expand...

Have you noticed that Princess also have a big jump from their 62 up to the new 72 Motor Yacht - no 67 any more.

This means that Princess also now dont have a boat with internal stairs - real shame - we use our internal stairs all the time.

Sorry - thread drift again.
 
Hurricane said:
Have you noticed that Princess also have a big jump from their 62 up to the new 72 Motor Yacht - no 67 any more.

This means that Princess also now dont have a boat with internal stairs - real shame - we use our internal stairs all the time.

Sorry - thread drift again.
Click to expand...

Yep you're right. I hadn't noticed that. 62 to 72 is quite a leap, as is 65 to 78 with FL

Firline will do internal stairs on sq78. They used to do them boxed in on early 74s, then stopped. Now they have a fully designed internal stair on 78 available as a customisation, yet noone has ever ordered it, yet

Its an open style like the sq58 so you kinda see through it, which is exactly how I suggested they design it before I found out they already had! And nice elec sliding door at top like a Targa, not a hinged hatch

So if noone has ordered it we may be in a minority here mike! I still think we're right tho

On the old sq 66, that became 68 then 70, they offered internal stairs. Only one customer bought it, out of 50 or so boats. Hull 4 I think. It sold secondhand last year to a danish buyer and he got essexby to remove the internal stairs!

Sorry for thread drift
 
This all about choice if you want a full beam cabin or an utility room.
But I think some here did not mention the galley layout which I think on the Azimut 55 is the much more prefared saloon integrated form, then the stairs down isolate scheme. This is sad if you, wife or some friend is doing the cooking.... If you have a chef is perfect or you charter the boat.
Wheter you like or not the Az 55 has made school in this size, and its design has been copied over and over.
Look at the boats which where released after the 55 (which was presented in 2000 in Genoa) all copied more or less its plans, Aicon 56, Princess 58/54, and the recent Fairline 55 Squadron etc etc. The Azimut 55 has also been delivered to 400+ units
As for the build quality I can say when I sold a Azimut 74 Ultra from 2002 to an owner who came from a previous P65 from 2001, and according to the owner which I spoke this week and his captain the Azimut is 4 points out of 10 better to the Pr. Yes Fairline is usally a better build to Prin, and the 74 Ultra is the one build in Viareggio so that is also another beast altogather to a 55. But his comments where pretty pleasing considering he uses it on one of the worst seas in the world i.e. Aegean which also has among the most nice cruising grounds.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
This all about choice if you want a full beam cabin or an utility room.
But I think some here did not mention the galley layout which I think on the Azimut 55 is the much more prefared saloon integrated form, then the stairs down isolate scheme. This is sad if you, wife or some friend is doing the cooking.... If you have a chef is perfect or you charter the boat.
Wheter you like or not the Az 55 has made school in this size, and its design has been copied over and over.
Look at the boats which where released after the 55 (which was presented in 2000 in Genoa) all copied more or less its plans, Aicon 56, Princess 58/54, and the recent Fairline 55 Squadron etc etc. The Azimut 55 has also been delivered to 400+ units
As for the build quality I can say when I sold a Azimut 74 Ultra from 2002 to an owner who came from a previous P65 from 2001, and according to the owner which I spoke this week and his captain the Azimut is 4 points out of 10 better to the Pr. Yes Fairline is usally a better build to Prin, and the 74 Ultra is the one build in Viareggio so that is also another beast altogather to a 55. But his comments where pretty pleasing considering he uses it on one of the worst seas in the world i.e. Aegean which also has among the most nice cruising grounds.
Click to expand...

This discussion shows how much compromise there is in boat design. On Sq58 the galley is lower (floor is about 30cm below saloon floor) and that allows the cooking area to be scooped under the access to the side door. Hard to describe, but if you go onthe boat you'll see what I mean. If you are prepared to have no side door the galley can be higher, which is what Azi did. I would have the side door and internal stairs for sure, but lots of people dont agree and they buy Azis

The side door is great to ventilate the boat at anchor - open the door and the saloon patio doors, and it scoops the breeze into the boat

The galley in Sq58 is not really that isolated. In the Azi the chef can chat to people at the dining table but not the saloon. In the Sq58 the chef can chat to anyone in the saloon or the dining table becuase the Sq58 galley is further back, but the chef is lower so is looking slightly up to look at the other people. In the med everyone is outside anyway, so the chef is always away from the party :-?

The main benefit of the Sq58 is that after the chef has prepared a beautiful meal there is actually a table big enough that everyone can eat a sociable lunch around. You dont get this on the Azi (even though 400 buyers seem not to care so I seem to be a minority interest group in wanting a nice lunch table!) :-)

uppertablenewphoto.jpg
 
Mikesyam, another thought: I'm in France Fri - Sun night next weekend 23-25 April. I have a quiet day saturday. If you want to jump on easyjet etc and come to Nice for the day on Saturday I'll give you a proper test drive and all-day try out of the Sq58, and lunch around the dining table. You'd be most welcome, and bring family etc. I'll be going out to lunch at anchor anyway, so you might as well come

To balance the books you might need a good look over an Azi 55. There are plenty in my marina but I can't get inside them. Though if you find one on brokerage the broker will let you inside. Port Vauban, Antibes. Very easy place to visit there and back in a day; I do it all the time

Volcanoes permitting of course :-/

Edit - You'll need sunglasses :)
 
Well, and while we are at that, why not arrange also a comparative test Sq58/Prin57?
It would take a bit longer stay of course, but hey, a man's got to do what a man's got to do... :D
 
jfm said:
The galley in Sq58 is not really that isolated. In the Azi the chef can chat to people at the dining table but not the saloon. In the Sq58 the chef can chat to anyone in the saloon or the dining table becuase the Sq58 galley is further back, but the chef is lower so is looking slightly up to look at the other people. In the med everyone is outside anyway, so the chef is always away from the party :-?
Click to expand...

The galley on the Sq58 is in a similar position to where Ferretti put their galleys and IMHO is the ideal position. I call it a galley half-down design. I don't like galleys fully up at saloon level because then all the mess of cooking is on show in the saloon and fully up galleys just can't fit in as much cupboard space as a galley half down or galley fully down arrangement. On the other hand, I don't like the galley down arrangement on Princesses either such as in the P 50/54/58. In this arrangement, the galley is too far away from the cockpit and too far from the flybridge particularly since Princess dont see fit to install internal flybridge steps on their boats these days. So I see the galley position on the Sq58 as a plus over the AZ55
 
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