Squadron 58 - 2004 - Saloon Floor Removal

jrudge

jrudge

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I need to remove the saloon floor on my S58 so that the injectors can be removed.

I have seen comment before that some people believe the Sofa has to be removed to do this, but that is apparently not the case. As such I am assuming floor removal is less than obvious and hence this question!

Any guidance appreciated.

Thank you


Jeremy
 
jrudge said:
I need to remove the saloon floor on my S58 so that the injectors can be removed.

I have seen comment before that some people believe the Sofa has to be removed to do this, but that is apparently not the case. As such I am assuming floor removal is less than obvious and hence this question!

Any guidance appreciated.

Thank you


Jeremy
Click to expand...
Remove carpet and sofa cushions.

empty storage under saloon sofas

You'll see 2 big plywood access panels. Screwed down. Starboard one comes straight out.

Port one is tucked under grp sofa base at aft port corner

So, remove plenty of screws that hold the sofa base onto the deck.
Also remove screws that are under the bottom edge of the padded sofa back rests. These are screwed in horizontally so must be removed to lift the sofa base moulding.

Once you've lifted the sofa base 2 inches or so, the engine access floor panel comes out.

While you're at it, jig saw access holes in top of sofa base moulding to create two new storage spaces that fairline didn't bother with. The aft-most one under the sofa island end will be small (I used for tools) and the next one round going clockwise is big. I lined it in carpet and got 20+ wine bottles in there.
After cutting the Grp hatches/lids you need to screw some 2x1 wood in to form flanges so the cut out kids don't fall through. The Grp is cored so it's easy to cut but stiff- nice work here by fairline.

There may be some other details I do t remember like unclipping engine room ceiling wiring for lights. And removing louvre vent in saloon sofa base. You'll figure it out. But don't remove the whole sofa like some mechanics do!!!

Carpet is easy to refit because it it's in snug in so many places. Need some 2inch wide double sided tape.

I have pics but not till Tuesday. Travelling now.
 
J, if you don't mind me asking, is injectors removal a routine maintenance/check scheduled for your VP engines?
And if so, at how many hours?
I'm asking because I should do the same with my MANs according to their official maintenance echelon, but I hear conflicting suggestions about that by different MAN engineers - some being along the lines of if it works, don't fix it... :ambivalence:
 
Numerous people have recommended it. Nick barke at essex , volvo Paul etc.

Cloud 9 ( user on here ) had an engine go the summer before last and it was a suspect injector.

I also have an oil weep from the port pan and the floor needs to be put to fix.

Testing and cleaning and adjustment is cheap ( in the uk ) as long as they don't need major work.

So to me its insurance not need driven. This was discussed a while ago and I know people have differing views .... I just need to know how to get the floor up at this point !
 
jfm said:
The Grp is cored so it's easy to cut but stiff- nice work here by fairline.
Click to expand...
LOL, I take it that you didn't say "... - nice work at least here by FL, because the rest of what we are discussing is a proper mess" to avoid upsetting petem? :D
 
jrudge said:
Numerous people have recommended it. Nick barke at essex , volvo Paul etc.
Cloud 9 ( user on here ) had an engine go the summer before last and it was a suspect injector.
Click to expand...
Aha, understood.
I must add that also for MAN engines, most folks actually give the same recommendation.
Otoh, according to most of them, even a minor nozzle defect (let alone a worse fault) immediately gives early indicators in terms of increased exhaust smoke, and/or signs of diesel drops on the water surface around the exhaust exit upon cold start.
How many hours did your engines clock? I've got 1400+ on mine...
And what happened to Cloud9 engine? I must have missed it, if it was discussed here.
 
jfm said:
Remove carpet and sofa cushions.

empty storage under saloon sofas

You'll see 2 big plywood access panels. Screwed down. Starboard one comes straight out.

Port one is tucked under grp sofa base at aft port corner

So, remove plenty of screws that hold the sofa base onto the deck.
Also remove screws that are under the bottom edge of the padded sofa back rests. These are screwed in horizontally so must be removed to lift the sofa base moulding.

Once you've lifted the sofa base 2 inches or so, the engine access floor panel comes out.

While you're at it, jig saw access holes in top of sofa base moulding to create two new storage spaces that fairline didn't bother with. The aft-most one under the sofa island end will be small (I used for tools) and the next one round going clockwise is big. I lined it in carpet and got 20+ wine bottles in there.
After cutting the Grp hatches/lids you need to screw some 2x1 wood in to form flanges so the cut out kids don't fall through. The Grp is cored so it's easy to cut but stiff- nice work here by fairline.

There may be some other details I do t remember like unclipping engine room ceiling wiring for lights. And removing louvre vent in saloon sofa base. You'll figure it out. But don't remove the whole sofa like some mechanics do!!!

Carpet is easy to refit because it it's in snug in so many places. Need some 2inch wide double sided tape.

I have pics but not till Tuesday. Travelling now.
Click to expand...


Many thanks ?
 
MapisM said:
Aha, understood.
I must add that also for MAN engines, most folks actually give the same recommendation.
Otoh, according to most of them, even a minor nozzle defect (let alone a worse fault) immediately gives early indicators in terms of increased exhaust smoke, and/or signs of diesel drops on the water surface around the exhaust exit upon cold start.
How many hours did your engines clock? I've got 1400+ on mine...
And what happened to Cloud9 engine? I must have missed it, if it was discussed here.
Click to expand...

I am only 600 hours.

Cloud 9 went bang in alcudia. It took about 2-3 month ts to fix and many euros !
 
MapisM said:
Aha, understood.
I must add that also for MAN engines, most folks actually give the same recommendation.
Otoh, according to most of them, even a minor nozzle defect (let alone a worse fault) immediately gives early indicators in terms of increased exhaust smoke, and/or signs of diesel drops on the water surface around the exhaust exit upon cold start.
How many hours did your engines clock? I've got 1400+ on mine...
And what happened to Cloud9 engine? I must have missed it, if it was discussed here.
Click to expand...

It’s a CR issue . how ever 1000 hrs is recommended , P yours should have been done then 400 hrs ago ish ?
Me n thee need not worry
My MAN engineer is relaxed about it too btw .
He,s more interested in cracking open the coolers and rebuilding water pumps as a precautionary measure .

Reading around an Achilles heal of the D 12 is leaky pans —- not sure what the fix is though ?
 
jrudge said:
They just jack up the engine, put in a new gasket and refill with oil.
Click to expand...

“Just “ - - - disconnect the shaft @ gearbox exist , prey when it’s all lowered back there’s no alignment issues ,
Or find a leaky prop seal a few hrs / days later more so if it’s a face seal ?
Suspect they done a few before .
 
You don’t have to lift the engine or remove the floor on a Squadron 58 to change the sump seals. Lower the sump down with a few bits of M8 studded bar in the corners until it touches the bilge and you can change the seal.

First check all around the engine for any other leaks that run down the block to the sump joint as quite often the oil runs into the groove in the sump flange then comes back out from other places around the sump joint.
 
Portofino said:
1000 hrs is recommended , P yours should have been done then 400 hrs ago ish ?
Click to expand...
Correct. Then again, I was told that on these engines injectors/nozzles faults are very rare, to the point that some 3000+ hours boats are still running without ever removing them.
And allegedly, it's one of those cases where problems, if any, are more likely to happen on low hours/rarely used engines, because any humidity traces inside the cylinders have more time to create corrosion etc.

As an aside, I fully agree with your objection vs. jrudge "just".
Disassemble the shaft coupling and jack up the engine sounds like a helluva job, for just replacing the pan gasket... :ambivalence:
 
aquatom said:
You don’t have to lift the engine or remove the floor on a Squadron 58 to change the sump seals. Lower the sump down with a few bits of M8 studded bar in the corners until it touches the bilge and you can change the seal.
Click to expand...
Sounds much more reasonable, for the gasket.
But as I understand, the floor removal is required to access the injectors. And also for valves registration, btw!
At least, I half recall that to have been mentioned in the past...
 
MapisM said:
LOL, I take it that you didn't say "... - nice work at least here by FL, because the rest of what we are discussing is a proper mess" to avoid upsetting petem? :D
Click to expand...

Ha ha, even I concede that Fairline aren't perfect! Take my boat for example, why on earth they continued to glue all the saloon and cabin roof panels in place when on other lines they were using zip lock is beyond me. And I've sill got the bruises on my leg from lying on the engine trying to change the aft bilge pump float switch (eventually admitted defeat and called the VP engineer who spent three hours dismantling and reassembling things to gain access).

And don't even mention the effort that will be required if we ever need to replace our drive trim rams.
 
petem said:
Ha ha, even I concede that Fairline aren't perfect! Take my boat for example, why on earth they continued to glue all the saloon and cabin roof panels in place when on other lines they were using zip lock is beyond me. And I've sill got the bruises on my leg from lying on the engine trying to change the aft bilge pump float switch (eventually admitted defeat and called the VP engineer who spent three hours dismantling and reassembling things to gain access).

And don't even mention the effort that will be required if we ever need to replace our drive trim rams.
Click to expand...

Oh - the joys of owning a boat!
 
J, the advice from Latestarter concerning unit injectors on a D12 was if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you suspect a problem, he recommended carrying out a cylinder contribution test with a vodia tool to identify which, if any, injectors were failing, and then only to repair or replace that one.

edit: there's also nothing in the maintenance schedule about having injectors checked, and it does cover occasional items like turbocharger inspection at 2,000 hours.

I think you do need to lift the floor on a Sq58 to check valve clearances though, after 150 hours then every 800 hours or 12 months, although I certainly don't have them done each year. I do get them done every 3 years though, usually about 300 hours.

Porto is right that D12's of that era suffer sump leaks, but the leaks on mine haven't got any worse in the 10 years I've had the boat, and I've never had to add oil, so I think the easiest option is to mop up the oil from time to time.
 
Last edited:
JFM is the sq58 floor removal expert , I watched him lift his some years back so I could check his valve clearances .
The SQ 58 has a great engine room to work in because the fuel tanks are in Front of the engines .
 
volvopaul said:
The SQ 58 has a great engine room to work in because the fuel tanks are in Front of the engines .
Click to expand...
Mmm... Even leaving aside the need to lift the saloon floor to check valves, among all the boats of similar size/vintage that I've seen (and I've seen plenty!), I don't think I'd rank the Sq58 among the best, in terms of e/r accessibility.
Don't get me wrong, she's a great boat in many - possibly most - other respects, and actually the only Brit one that I would have considered, in that segment.
But in terms of e/r accessibility, imho most competitors did better than FL, back then.
The possible exceptions that spring to my mind are the other Brits (P57, 'Hattan 56) and the AZ55.
 
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