Squadron 55 or Princess 58?

[statgar]

Looking to upgrade my cherished Phantom 46 which I've had from new since 2006, to either of the above circa 2009 budget >500k, any advice from forumites would be more than welcome. I've heard rumours that Fairline's standards were slipping prior to their demise in 2015 so what should I look out for?

 

[jfm]

Fairline standards then were good. Both are excellent boats. The sq55 @2009 will be v early in the build series; a later one where it had morphed into 58 would be better, and the final morph into Sq 60 is the best of all for Med use because of the super big swim platform. (The swim platform actually looks too big, but in reality it is perfect and it is all the others that are too small).

If you want a decent crew cabin then get the princess - its crew cabin is better than sq55. The sq58 version of Sq55 got decent crew space.

Both are good boats so it perhaps comes down to whether you want galley up (Sq) or down (P58), or your tastes on the slightly more trad interior/furniture of the Princess vs the more contemporary interior style of the Sq55, etc, and of the course the condition of the particular boats on the market.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I stand with JFM but that platform for the 60 is an eye soar.
Squadron 55s had a lot of electronic problems (solved in 58), be sure that these have been fixed.

Same vintage Princess 58 has a lower deck galley which I think is no meat or fish and does not work well in this size.

I think the interior of the Squadron 55 feels more plush to the Princess 58 of the same vintage.

 

[jfm]

Yep the "pilot" electronic module didn't work but should have been swapped under warranty.

Say what you like on too-big swim platforms but imho they are awesome in use. My sq78 also has a too big looking platform but it is the perfect size for playing on in warm climes. A few other boats have super big platforms (galleon 66 for example) and the rest are imho a bit small. Anyway each to their own

 

[MapisM]

Yup, there's a lot to be said for large swim platforms.
And I don't mind the ugly aesthetic proportions - MoBos will never be things of beauty as some J-class are, anyway.
What is imho plain wrong, from both a form and function standpoint, is the overhanging design.
That always stroke me of an afterthought, and a simplistic engineering approach to tackle a market demand.
I mean, I accept that if lifting platforms sell boats, builders must deliver.
But how hard can it be to design a whole hull section that can be lowered, and strongly attached to the main one when lifted?
After all, at Ferretti they were half way there already in the 90s, when their 150/65/75/85 models all had large swim platforms with a separate stern section of the hull underneath...

 

[jfm]

Pah, ferretti were nowhere near. That was just a bolt on Grp box. (Arguably Overblue have perfected that, by making the whole boat from stick together boxes )

If you think this a problem needing a soloution, the challenge would be to make a quality hi-lo mechanism for a “boxed under” swim platform. That could be done if client wants it and will pay. I’m not so sure there is any problem to fix.

The new Fairline 63GTO goes part way, as does new Fairline 8x which is of course only drawings currently. The platform has hull under it for the forward half of the platform’s length, and the Hilo mechanism makes the platform slide aft (revealing nice deck/steps etc) then down

 

[MapisM]

If you think this a problem needing a soloution
...
I’m not so sure there is any problem to fix.

Naah, I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why any surfaces overhanging from the stern and low on the waterline is a nonsense from a naval architecture standpoint. And the longer and larger, the bigger the can of worms.

Btw, I was neither aware of the 63GTO nor of the 8x design, but it would be overshooting to do that just to reveal some steps down - which btw I've already seen on other boats. Obviously also FL thought that there was a problem to fix, eventually!

 

[jfm]

Btw, I was neither aware of the 63GTO nor of the 8x design, but it would be overshooting to do that just to reveal some steps down - which btw I've already seen on other boats. Obviously also FL thought that there was a problem to fix, eventually!

Not just to reveal steps. It slides back then down, revealing some deck as well as steps. Happy to be corrected but I can't think of another boat that does this.
Yep fairline seem to agree with you!
Actually plse let me backtrack- a swim platform with full hull underneath, and a Hilo where the platform moves up, aft, down, revealing another deck and a 2x deck area in total, like a massive transformer, would be quite cool

 

[Elessar]

Pah, ferretti were nowhere near. That was just a bolt on Grp box. (Arguably Overblue have perfected that, by making the whole boat from stick together boxes )

If you think this a problem needing a soloution, the challenge would be to make a quality hi-lo mechanism for a “boxed under” swim platform. That could be done if client wants it and will pay. I’m not so sure there is any problem to fix.

The new Fairline 63GTO goes part way, as does new Fairline 8x which is of course only drawings currently. The platform has hull under it for the forward half of the platform’s length, and the Hilo mechanism makes the platform slide aft (revealing nice deck/steps etc) then down

That sounds excruciatingly complicated and expensive.

The sea line system on the S48 looked brilliant to me. Full hull length, steps up when the platform is down and mechanically very simple with a diagonal slide mechanism. Why didn’t that type of system catch on?

 

[statgar]

Thanks to all contributors, I never thought that swim platforms could be so complicated things have definitely moved on since my 1982 Princess 30 with its optional 'swimming platform' but point taken anyway, there's a SQ55 in Croatia listed that has had a HiLo platform retro fitted looks OK as does the boat but seems too cheap maybe because of it's hours, 900, location and possible ownership although its loaded with extras. On the subject of galley up or down I certainly prefer up for all sorts of reasons including the potential of seasickness, particularly in the Med when most dining is alfresco why take up valuable sleeping space for an upstairs dinette but that's only my opinion. Thanks for the 'pilot' module tip I'll certainly watch out for that. Thanks again to all, keep it coming.

 

[Truro Ex Pat]

Just to add my bit as an Sq 60 owner I would agree with JFM the galley up is a must for me as trying to prepare food for the fly is an issue at anchor etc, also the platform is excellent as we do quite a bit of water sports so this really helps, the Princess looked quite dated in my view and has improved massively in last 5 years. If you want any more information then happy to help out on ownership costs and information on the Fairline, mine is currently listed for sale so you can get a good idea from the pictures etc.

 

[MapisM]

It slides back then down, revealing some deck as well as steps. Happy to be corrected but I can't think of another boat that does this.

I'm 80% sure to have seen a video of a boat with a similar solution, but I can't for the life of me remind any details about her.
If I should really say a name, I would say that she was a Prestige, but I'm far from being sure.

That aside, didn't also the old 'Hattan 56 with its platform diagonally sliding down reveal some steps underneath?

 

[jfm]

That aside, didn't also the old 'Hattan 56 with its platform diagonally sliding down reveal some steps underneath?

Sure it did but that was nothing special and the platform was still cantilevered. I must be failing to describe it properly but I’m talking about a substantially different concept where the mostly non cantilevered platform slides back revealing deck, and then moves down under the w’line. Nothing like Hattan 56.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Ferretti introduced the extended bathing platform in the 49 Altura with tender stowage back in 1985. It was a first in the industry back then.
Tender lifts where introduced in the USA in around 1986, fitted as after market on used boats, mostly for those fanatics to carry jet bikes.
Other Italian builders started to catch up on the extended bathing platform bug in the nineties. Back then it was genius mostly for safety reasons.
Sea Ray was the first of the production builder to have the hi-lo bathing platform in around late nineties. Then came Sunseeker with the 56 Predator, and others started following suit. Azimut with the 68S, Sunseeker 64 Predator Mk.II where other had hilo bathing platforms.

I think some low standing and extra long bathing platforms are a bit dangerous in a large following sea, and I have been told a few stories that went wrong but I never witness anything.

If RINA was the same as it was up until mid nineties some of today boats will not be certified.

The 74 to 78 extending bathing platform was an easy way for Fairline to make a 78 without any financial effort. Then what came afterwards as the different windows and hard-top completed the package.
Honestly It looked okay-sh on the 78 but doing the same on the 55-60 it did not, it really looked an after thought in the smaller model.
I think there is a certain dimension to length when a platform can look good or not. I think in sub 20 meter it is around the meter to 1.5 mark deep, then it is good after that it does not make any sense.