Springstarter

[VicMallows]

I like the air start motors on REALLY big diesels. They wind the engine up and suddenly the whole thing bursts into life.

Yes, they're very impressive. (The only one I have actually seen in action was at the underground flour mill in Malta). Now there's an idea for those who carry SCUBA tanks anyway!

 

[Tranona]

But they have listed Kubota (which is the base engine for several 'popular' marine engines.

If you know your Volvo Penta base engines, many of them are listed as well. They just don't explicitly list all the Volvo Penta variants but lots of the starter motors are interchangeable and the later models are just updated variants using the same starter. There might be a few engines not covered (I haven't checked for Vetus for example) but most of the ones I looked for were there if you dug around a bit. I didn't check for Yanmar but it might be worth asking them as they say 'ask for any other model'. Certainly not such a problem as to dismiss the whole concept.

Not so, I am afraid. If you look at the specific engines, the only ones that are commonly used as a sailboat auxilliary is the Volvo MD22/Perkins Prima plus two ancient MD2 and 17 pand the Bukh lifeboat engines.

As many others have stated these starters are designed for larger engines, typically over 3L used in industrial applications where electric start is either hazardous or unreliable. Just not suitable (or needed) for a small sailboat engine.

Although it might be practical to change starter motors if the electrics fail on some engines, on others such as the small Kubotas you have to remove boring things like engine mounting brackets first.

Don't know what they cost now, but seem to remember when I worked for Ford tractors in the 1960's they were 3 or 4 times the price of an electric starter.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not so, I am afraid. If you look at the specific engines, the only ones that are commonly used as a sailboat auxilliary is the Volvo MD22/Perkins Prima plus two ancient MD2 and 17 pand the Bukh lifeboat engines.

As many others have stated these starters are designed for larger engines, typically over 3L used in industrial applications where electric start is either hazardous or unreliable. Just not suitable (or needed) for a small sailboat engine.

Although it might be practical to change starter motors if the electrics fail on some engines, on others such as the small Kubotas you have to remove boring things like engine mounting brackets first.

Don't know what they cost now, but seem to remember when I worked for Ford tractors in the 1960's they were 3 or 4 times the price of an electric starter.

When I looked through the list I found a few engines of 1 litre capacity some less and a fair few around the 1.2 to 1.6 litre 3 cylinder size so I am not sure that they are really designed just for the larger engine market. Perhaps they need to look at their list of engines because there are many small ones listed and it might encourage sales if they specifically mentioned some of the common boat engines available.

Regarding your second point, I could be cynical and suggest that if you need to remove an engine mount to remove the starter motor on some of the Kubota diesel marinisations then that doesn't reflect very well on the marinisation job. People might moan about Volvo, but when they marinised the Perkins block to make my 2040 they left me with an engine that I can strip almost down to the crank whilst in situ.

The last time I looked at these, despite it being a 'good idea' I admit that I was put off by the cost as well!

 

[Tranona]

When I looked through the list I found a few engines of 1 litre capacity some less and a fair few around the 1.2 to 1.6 litre 3 cylinder size so I am not sure that they are really designed just for the larger engine market. Perhaps they need to look at their list of engines because there are many small ones listed and it might encourage sales if they specifically mentioned some of the common boat engines available.

Regarding your second point, I could be cynical and suggest that if you need to remove an engine mount to remove the starter motor on some of the Kubota diesel marinisations then that doesn't reflect very well on the marinisation job. People might moan about Volvo, but when they marinised the Perkins block to make my 2040 they left me with an engine that I can strip almost down to the crank whilst in situ.

The last time I looked at these, despite it being a 'good idea' I admit that I was put off by the cost as well!

Based on what is listed on their website, what I said is correct. None of the small base engines or purpose built small marine engines are listed apart from the ones I noted.

No Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Kubota, Perkins etc that are the base engines for just about all the marine engines on the market. These engines are made in their 10's of 000s for industrial applications such as construction equipment, agricultural machinery, generators, refrigeration plants etc so if there was a need/demand for a spring starter surely they would be made already?

Perhaps it is because the starters fitted are so reliable and starter batteries so easy to provide there is no demand. Not long ago, manual start was the mark of a "marine" engine, along with decompressors and huge flywheels. Now it is glow plugs and instant starting.

As to the difficulty of getting the starter off, that is a function of the basic architecture of the engine as there is not enough length to get the starter motor in and fit mounts - this is on the 10/14hp 2 cylinder base engine. Not an issue on the larger engines where the extra cylinder increases the length of the block. You rarely hear of starter problems on the small Beta/Nanni engines.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Based on what is listed on their website, what I said is correct. None of the small base engines or purpose built small marine engines are listed apart from the ones I noted.

No Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Kubota, Perkins etc that are the base engines for just about all the marine engines on the market. These engines are made in their 10's of 000s for industrial applications such as construction equipment, agricultural machinery, generators, refrigeration plants etc so if there was a need/demand for a spring starter surely they would be made already?

Perhaps it is because the starters fitted are so reliable and starter batteries so easy to provide there is no demand. Not long ago, manual start was the mark of a "marine" engine, along with decompressors and huge flywheels. Now it is glow plugs and instant starting.

As to the difficulty of getting the starter off, that is a function of the basic architecture of the engine as there is not enough length to get the starter motor in and fit mounts - this is on the 10/14hp 2 cylinder base engine. Not an issue on the larger engines where the extra cylinder increases the length of the block. You rarely hear of starter problems on the small Beta/Nanni engines.

Well we can kick around what engines they cover or not. I know that they list a starter for another engine that I am fairly confident also fits mine, but perhaps that is the exception? I note that they do list Lombardini with some small engines.

We used to have a Nanni three cylinder, but as you say, the starter rarely gives trouble and I can't remember whether the engine mount was in the way of its removal or not...

I still think that the idea of a wind up starter is a good one for emergency use. I seem to remember them being advertised in the yachting press once upon a time, but perhaps they were from a different supplier? I also know that for us the expense is a fair way down the priority list...

 

[PabloPicasso]

I think vespa scooters all have a similar wind-up style kick start Maybe that could be adapted somehow. Certainly cheap and available

 

[pampas]

Also not many places to get them repaired as the spring requires special tooling to remove it.(Spring)

 

[Bilgediver]

A lot of engines have /had an option to have 2 starter bell housing which makes this a viable proposition dependent on cost and may even be a requirement if used in a SOLAS installation.

Main memory of seeing one in action is its a hell of bang when it goes off.

Fuel tank ref may be about engines with additional starting fuel

A bit like mechanics tool box always included spark plug cleaning brush

These have been available for lifeboats and emergency tenders etc on ships where two independant methods of starting are required. They have a standard fitting arrangement so there would be models to suite most engines. We had them on Saab, Volvo,Lister,Ruston, We also had Hydraulic ram type starters where a toothed ram was propelled across a small gear on the end of the crankshaft.

 

[Sybarite]

Not so, I am afraid. If you look at the specific engines, the only ones that are commonly used as a sailboat auxilliary is the Volvo MD22/Perkins Prima plus two ancient MD2 and 17 pand the Bukh lifeboat engines.

As many others have stated these starters are designed for larger engines, typically over 3L used in industrial applications where electric start is either hazardous or unreliable. Just not suitable (or needed) for a small sailboat engine.

Although it might be practical to change starter motors if the electrics fail on some engines, on others such as the small Kubotas you have to remove boring things like engine mounting brackets first.

Don't know what they cost now, but seem to remember when I worked for Ford tractors in the 1960's they were 3 or 4 times the price of an electric starter.

With respect : "Spring starters can fire up engines from the smallest one cylinder motors to massive 15 litre generators."

 

[lw395]

My Dad's neighbour had a lawnmower with a wind-up starter.
When it worked it was good.
But if there was the slightest thing wrong with the engine, it was hopeless.

Didn't one of the singlehanded round the world chaps once start his engine using pulleys, string and the force of the sails, or was it a weight up the mast?

 

[Sybarite]

My Dad's neighbour had a lawnmower with a wind-up starter.
When it worked it was good.
But if there was the slightest thing wrong with the engine, it was hopeless.

Didn't one of the singlehanded round the world chaps once start his engine using pulleys, string and the force of the sails, or was it a weight up the mast?

Mainsheet around the flywheel and then jibed.

 

[geoffatstanpit]

The Brixham trawler "Regard" had a spring starter made by Lucas on its '50s Parsons 105 hp engine. The clever thing about it was that the engine rewound the spring automatically when it started. There was a hole to put a handle in to wind it manually if it didn't. It always worked when I was on her so I don't know how hard that was to do.
She was for sale at http://brixham.boatshed.com/brixham_sailing_trawler_yacht-boat-12170.html with detailed spec but now sold so look soon before they pull it!