Sportina 620 & any Lift Keel Issues ?

ValleyForge

ValleyForge

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Nice looking boat these, a pretty 21'er with all mod cons (lid, seats, cooker etc.) just wondering if anyone out there knows of issues with the lifting keel. This is basically a rectangular (& streamlined) slab of cast iron which is hoisted up & down an open slot from keel to cabin top with a pulley & ss wire arrangement. So what happens if the wire snaps ? does the keel plummet to the murky depths ?

Bit wary as this happened to a Sailfish 18 of mine many moons ago & getting replacements back then wasn't easy & will presumably be a challenge for a 1988 Polish made craft. She is currently on its trailer so seeing how the keel is located when down is not easy.

I'm hoping someone will say it sits at the bottom & can go no further, and is removed by lifting out upwards through the cabin top slot with a crane but comment from the wise & knowledgeable on here appreciated !
 
I think it's VERY important with a lifting keel boat to properly maintain the lifting keel.

Over the last 2 winters I've been modifying my own trailer so my swing keel can be lowered while on the trailer. In my case I can also remove the top of the keel box in the cabin to inspect / repair the keel lifting mechanism.

I don't know your boat, but in mine the keel can't fall through the bottom of the boat as it's encapulated and has a flange, wider than the keel slot in the bottom of the boat. However the biggest nightmare I could immagine is the lifting wire snapping while the keel is fully up. I expect the weight of the keel dropping un restrained might just make itself a bigger hole in the bottom of the boat which might not be good news.

So I would look at modifying your trailer if possible to allow the keel to be lowered. Alternatively, can it be lifted further upwards so you can inspect the lifting wire and it's attachment points from above?
 
Good comments, thanks. The craft isn't mine as yet, I'm pondering on it at the moment. Everything else ticks the right boxes though. Maybe I'm worrying too much, but Prodave's scenario is in mind too although to a lesser extent as the keel would normally be fully down (& hanging by a thread ?)
 
Valley Forge

I'm afraid I don't know your boat, but as owner of a lift keeler for 34 years I can vouch for the previous comment by Prodave about maintenance being essential; one common snag with lift keelers especially smaller ones is that they can be wintered ashore on trailers with no access to the keel plate for maintenance or even inspection.

On the Anderson 22 a snapping wire would not let the keel go out of the boat, but 950lbs travelling a few feet in a nanosecond would give the hull and the crew a very unpleasant jolt !

If you are unsure of your keels' state a hoisted inspection is vital, quite obviously your and more importantly your familys' lives depend on it.

With my boat I winter her ashore every winter on high trestles allowing lowering of the keel, I offer the plans for these easily constructed things to members of our owners association - I'd happily mail them to you free if you'd like to adapt them to suit your boats' hull shape, PM me if interested.

Andy

trestles102-7.jpg
 
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If it's the same boat as Catnip (a bloke in the TSA has one) I think the keel is lifted with a winch on the coach roof. There is a little well just infront of the mast and the wire dissapears down that to the keel, I think it's a verticle lift but can't be sure.

On my Copland the last 8" of keel lowering is done through water in the keel box so although it would be a bad thing I hope a wire failure wouldn't take the bottom of the boat out along with the ballast. It'd make a hell of a splash though.
 
Aquaplane,

surely there's bound to be water up to a certain ( waterline ) level in the keelbox, how does that have any bearing on the keel without wire staying in the boat ?

Obviously I don't know which Copland you have and don't know them that well.

As the owner describes it, and as you mention a winch in front of the mast, safe to say it's a vertical lift.

BTW I met an idiot progressing on holiday - with his young family - on his Sailfish 18 after his keel had dropped out; they're notorious for it.
 
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Seajet said:
surely there's bound to be water up to a certain ( waterline ) level in the keelbox, how does that have any bearing on the keel without wire staying in the boat ?

The keel box is rectangular with a keel shaped hole in the bottom of it.

The keel is bolted onto a big piece of GRP ( the mucky white bit on top of the rusty lump in the pic ) which fits fairly snugly into the keel box. If the keel is in freefall, there is restricted room for the water to get out of the way so the fall will be hydraulicaly damped.

I'm not intending to test it just incase I'm not 100% right. I'm never wrong.......

th_P1000480.jpg


I'm sometimes confused.
Click to expand...
 
Aquaplane / Bob ?

I really think you need more to go on an than a vague idea 'will be hydraulically dampened', lift keels can be difficult to sort out shape and arrangement wise but any ideas ?

on my boat the slot is narrow like yours, and there is a protruding 'nib' on the top leading edge of the keel which rests in a steel trough when the keel is down, so the wire can be quite slack without any harm.

The keel is also prevented from dropping out by the pulley assembly on the nib, I imagine your boat has something similar ?

Andy

silentrunnninglayout011-2.jpg


silentrunnninglayout059-2.jpg
 
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I am not exactly sure which design of lifting keel the polish lakes design Sportina has.

Some of the Andrzej Skrzat designs have their ballast built into the hull bottom and the lifting keel is just a weighted dagger board rather than a lump of cast iron.

They are weighted enough to just sink into water and so are only critical to stop leeway and do not add a lot to keeping the boat upright.
Obviously the weight is negligible and it is unlikely to break any lifting strop.

If this is not the case then everything said earlier about maintenance and lifting strops is very valid.

Our lifting keel is supported by a wire and it is routinely replaced every 2 years as a precaution against failure.

When lowered the keel sits firmly locked on a substantial steel flange glassed in to the bottom of the boat .

I am not so sure that nearly a ton of keel falling 1.2M is not going to take the bottom out regardless:eek: It would probably break any secondary safety strop also.

We have a safety bar of 3/4 stainless rod that can be inserted horizontally through the keel casing and keel. When the keel is left raised for any time the strain is taken off the wire and hydraulics.

I would also check the design out to see if there is a means of locking the keel in the down position. It gives you a better chance of surviving and recovering from a knockdown.:)
 
TSB240

it's easy to fit a keel uplock on the Anderson 22 to take the strain off the winch assembly, as I and a few other owners have.

I also have a stainless lock-down rod to keep the keel extended if ever feeling like being inverted.

Uplock pin:

silentrunnninglayout012-3.jpg
 
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Seajet said:
The keel is also prevented from dropping out by the pulley assembly on the nib?

silentrunnninglayout059-2.jpg
Click to expand...

Looking at that set up Andy you have a lovely gullotine action betweeen the cast iron nib and the supporting metal guide wheels on the metal axle. Is it hard or soft stainless?

The lug is cast iron. Any cracks in it?

Also you would have a very high point loading when those metal guide wheels hit the bottom of the boat .

Whats the ballast weight in the keel and how far would it free fall if the wire broke?

It is well worth doing the engineering calculations just to see what degree of safety you have.

PLEASE NOTE

I am not having a go at the A22:)
 
Thread Drift

There are yet undiscovered pygmy tribes in central Africa that know Seajet is an A22 bore.

Rather than hijacking another thread and filling up the PBO server with more pointless photos, why not just answer the OP's question?
 
ValleyForge said:
comment from the wise & knowledgeable on here appreciated !
Click to expand...


Some pictures of the keel lifting gear of Sportina 680 for the op to consider.

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boatimages/2012/9/27/23756722large.jpg

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boatimages/2012/9/27/23756723large.jpg

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boatimages/2012/9/27/23756725large.jpg


Cant find any for the 620 but believe it is similar.

I seem to remember that Preston Marina were marketing this boat.
You might give them a call to see if there is someone who has direct experience of the Sportina 620 rather than the Pygmies on here:D


http://www.prestonmarina.co.uk/core_pages/contact.htm
 
Pivoting keel

I had a Sportina 760 a few years ago. Great fun and a good sail. This had a pivoting keel which you could raise using just muscle power using a pulley system in the cockpit running up to point near the mast and then down inside the compression post. I was on a drying moring for a couple of years and had no problems. Occasionally it would rattle a little in its housing, especially if at anchor and caught in a cross sea. I did replace the lines once in around 5 years of ownership. I will also admit to catching a few sandbars when sailing in Chichester Harbour with no ill effects!

Looking at the line drawings of a 620 these show a pivoting keel arrangement. Also interior photos show no lines running to the keel box (which forms part of the table). I would guess that Sportina generally kept a similar arrangement across their range.

Hope this helps
 
ValleyForge said:
Nice looking boat these, a pretty 21'er with all mod cons (lid, seats, cooker etc.) just wondering if anyone out there knows of issues with the lifting keel. This is basically a rectangular (& streamlined) slab of cast iron which is hoisted up & down an open slot from keel to cabin top with a pulley & ss wire arrangement. So what happens if the wire snaps ? does the keel plummet to the murky depths ?

Bit wary as this happened to a Sailfish 18 of mine many moons ago & getting replacements back then wasn't easy & will presumably be a challenge for a 1988 Polish made craft. She is currently on its trailer so seeing how the keel is located when down is not easy.

I'm hoping someone will say it sits at the bottom & can go no further, and is removed by lifting out upwards through the cabin top slot with a crane but comment from the wise & knowledgeable on here appreciated !
Click to expand...

Dear Valley Forge:

I’m the owner of a Sportina 620. The system to lift the keel got broken when I was sailing and I have lost the keel for ever.

I can’t find a drawing of the keel neither its weight to build a new one.

Could you help me please? Is there a brochure?

I thank you in advance.
 
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