Spirit Yachts: not all slender sloops with modern keels.

Twister_Ken said:
And for whoever it was who said they don't like the Spirit's rig, I can only assume you've never seen them sailing. Not dissimilar to a J-Class.

velsheda02.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't dislike the Spirit sloop rig...but however towering and efficient a sloop may be, I'd rather look at a schooner. Especially if I owned the vessel! I only began this thread because I'd noticed that Spirit themselves seem ready to build very traditional yachts/rigs...

...but I'm not surprised that they don't/can't build them in advance of bespoke requests for such designs. Pity!
 
dancrane said:
I don't dislike the Spirit sloop rig...but however towering and efficient a sloop may be, I'd rather look at a schooner. Especially if I owned the vessel! I only began this thread because I'd noticed that Spirit themselves seem ready to build very traditional yachts/rigs...

...but I'm not surprised that they don't/can't build them in advance of bespoke requests for such designs. Pity!
Click to expand...

There was a new(ish) schooner at the superyacht event in Cowes a month or so back. Didn't look great (my view).
 
dancrane said:
norms; and their hull form (overhangs & modest beam) bears striking resemblance to nice century-old designs...
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I disagree. The overhangs, especially the counter, are pointlessly exaggerated and the proportion of length to freeboard is wrong. This also distorts the sheer. Having had the good fortune to work aboard and sail amongst some of the classics from the designers (some of which take your breath away with the grace of their hull forms) I have mentioned, I can only see Spirit yachts as clumsy pastiches of the great classic designs. This designer simply doesn't have the "eye" for it.

I don't think there is much to recommend some of the modern, mass produced cruisers aesthetically, but at least they are honest. For the price of a Spirit you could buy a modern design that is both honest and handsome.
 
Last edited:
Old vs New

As I posted above, I own Spirit-46 hull #1. Obviously, I like how she looks as do the numerous other people who've paid a great deal more for a Spirit than they would have had to pay for a GRP boat of a "modern" design or for an older traditional boat.

Having been the master of a 40' Danish coastal cutter (1895), a 108' Alden two master topsail schooner (1926), a P class sloop (1922), an IOD class sloop, (1942), and many others I have spent many of my 45 years at sea aboard old boats. When choosing a boat for myself, there was no doubt that it would be a sloop, cold molded wood construction and have all the modern rigging technologies. I did look at the Fairlie 55 which was just designed along with the various other Spirit of Tradition boats in the UK and the NE of the USA, without doubt the Spirit (and particularly the 46' version) was the best performing and best built of the lot.

I don't mean to disparage a number of the beautiful caravel planked, strip planked, and lapstrake built boats. But, having replaced well over 100 frames and many times more planks in my life, I wanted a construction that was light and strong. But most importantly reflected the very best of what we've learned about yacht design in the last 200 years, not something that was a bit of sailing nostalgia or a historical artifact.

Similarly, while the Alden schooner was lovely with her two gaffs below club topsails and three headsails flying, that sort of rig is simply impossible for my wife and me. The Alden took a crew of 5 strong men to do a delivery and a crew of 35 to race her. Her complete lack of technology made her a real physical work out, without even a single winch to haul a sheet or halyard. All sails were canvas and lines were hemp, because the owner wanted her in " as built condition". His boat so it was his decision.

As to the "look" of the designs coming from Spirit, I have to say that this sort of discussion of taste is more than a little like sitting at a bar discussing which of your friends wives has the nicer behind. It is so painfully obvious that this is entirely a matter of personal taste that spouting judgements can quickly dissolve into bad manners. Suffice it to say that sailing our Spirit-46 into port everywhere we've gone elicits a response from all who see her that speaks for itself. For those who don't care for Sean's designs, there are plenty of others to choose from. He, unlike most designers and builders, has been successful in an extremely difficult business. As someone who used to work in the field I can personally attest to how difficult a task that is to perform.
 
All very fair comment. I don't pretend that I love gaffers and schooner rig because of extended experience of the type; I wish! I don't doubt that any gaffer over 50' or 60' is a serious on-going work-out, especially with reefing and running backstays to attend to. However...

...every picture and bit of footage I've seen, showing traditional two-masters, has made me want one. No matter that they're complicated, inefficient and time-consuming, where a modern or updated design might benefit from taller sails that roller-furl; to my simplistic soul, every moment aboard would be richly enjoyable, including the hard work required.

I certainly wouldn't wish to instigate argument here - but on the question of a rig's performance/efficiency, versus the feel it lends the vessel, I often wonder on board a friend's sloop, whether his pursuit of pace and high-pointing suggest he'd really prefer a motor boat...:eek:

...he's so keen to get where he's going, he doesn't seem to relish the freedom of being afloat. Granted, freedom relies on some movement, but even a sailing barge can make progress, whilst providing an intense atmosphere on board...unlike my friend's Jeanneau.

None of which matters at all. I'm very glad to see any wooden boats being built, and in most respects I admire the Spirits a good deal. I'll just be quadruply excited and impressed, to see a really close replica to century-old designs, launched anew.

For a while I subscribed to a 'Classics' magazine, but it was mainly full of back-woods Canadians building dories. Is there a better mag/site for trad-gaff enthusiasts?
 
Litotes said:
I'm afraid I disagree. The overhangs, especially the counter, are pointlessly exaggerated.
Click to expand...

I've got to disagree with that. Firstly the Spirit's are a modern design, they just don't follow the trend to increased beam and a flatter hull aft. That trend has many advantages but disadvantages to, especially to windward. The long overhangs are designed to increase the LWL when healed and do make a significant difference. I've been lucky enough to sail on a Spirit and one thing you notice straightaway is the acceleration - the slightest gust and you will feel the boat heal and accelerate. Once you remember not luff for every little gust but let her heal and just keep going you quickly realise she likes being sailed at an angle - perhaps not on her ear but certainly she's quicker healed than upright.
 
Form and function....

I have a replica 52ft Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter. In its day, the pilot cutter was the height of sailing technology and the boats were a designed for the function they had to perform. My boat as a copy has a lot of great characteristics and a lot of character - not all of it ideal as you rapidly appreciate when trying to park ass end too in a marina in a cross wind. It does however in a way represent the state of the art of real sailing and real working boats as a tool/method for earning a living - as opposed to yachting for the toffs.

I also appreciate modern high tech boats with slender rigs which can surf to windward in a gale. Again - some kind of ideal in terms of form and function. Just sometimes, when bashing to windward in a gale when working out my VMG to my destination, I hanker after one of these.

For me, the Spirit yachts are neither of these ideals and I would not want one. But, fortunately not everyone thinks as I do.
 
Twister_Ken said:
For those who hanker after 'the way it used to be' you might like to ponder what all those great designers of yesteryear would draw today if they had access to modern materials and technology. Not a pastiche of a 100 year old design, I'll be bound.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ken; but since I'm always delighted by the intensely natural-feeling, flavoursome, anti-plastic authentic solidity of the old-timers, why on earth would I seek any evolution therefrom?

This word 'pastiche' seems often to carry a derogatory implication - did you intend that, or am I over-sensitive? Pastiche only means imitation...and an ably-built copy of a fine schooner from the early twentieth century, would seem to be exactly what I most covet!

With retrospect over all history's highs and lows of artistry and form and function to choose from, why would the most recent evolution necessarily be any improvement on designs which earlier, very different environmental/economic/social circumstances made possible?

I prefer oldies - or competent copies - because despite their technical shortcomings, I enjoy them, much more. What else matters? :)
 
Last edited:
grumpy_o_g said:
Firstly the Spirit's are a modern design, they just don't follow the trend to increased beam and a flatter hull aft.
Click to expand...

Indeed so. A lightweight modern design attempting to reproduce the "look" of much older designs.

The long overhangs are designed to increase the LWL when healed and do make a significant difference. I've been lucky enough to sail on a Spirit and one thing you notice straightaway is the acceleration - the slightest gust and you will feel the boat heal and accelerate.
Click to expand...

That is, indeed, the purpose of the overhangs, but I doubt if the exaggerated overhangs of the Spirit designs are necessary to achieve that advantage. I suspect these boats would be as efficient and a lot more graceful if they were better proportioned. And it doesn't surprise me that the Spirit goes well to windward and accelerates easily. That is characteristic of many current, lightweight high end boats.

The main reason to buy this kind of boat is, surely, aesthetic rather than practical. That is a worthy reason. Most sailors love beautiful boats built by craftsmen. I know I do. But I think that an important element of the profound aesthetic satisfaction such boats offer is the integral, honest relationship of function and form. Nothing about them should be gratuitous. For me, these yachts fail on both counts, as did their Macmillan predecessors. I don't find them beautiful and too much about them strikes me as gratuitous.

If I could afford a Spirit boat I wouldn't consider buying one. Others see it differently. Fair enough. Each to their own.
 
Just want to say a big thank you, to all those people who put their life and soul into designing, building, owning, maintaining, and sailing, beautiful boats. Old or new, traditional or modern, one hull/mast or many. To see a well designed boat, well handled, in a breeze and seaway, is a thing to gladden the heart.

Remember, every boat in the world, is the most beautiful boat in the world, to at least one person.

Except, I KNOW mine is the prettiest.
 
Just had a quick look around their website in case things have changed recently.
To me they look and sail wonderfully and I'm sure the owners would regard them as a-particular-success. The company must be very good by now at building top end idiosyncratic dreamboats, and why not?
I have been lucky enough to sail on one or two quite nice boats of yore, thundering along as a kid on a Shepherd schooner from the 30s, racing gaffers at smack meets, indeed my first boat was a Fife designed 40 footer ( knackered hence affordable).
I would be happy to be invited aboard a Spirit for a jar:)
 
Last edited:
ProMariner said:
Just want to say a big thank you, to all those people who put their life and soul into designing, building, owning, maintaining, and sailing, beautiful boats. Old or new, traditional or modern, one hull/mast or many. To see a well designed boat, well handled, in a breeze and seaway, is a thing to gladden the heart.

Remember, every boat in the world, is the most beautiful boat in the world, to at least one person.

Except, I KNOW mine is the prettiest.
Click to expand...

Well said :)
 
I found a nice website dedicated to schooners, most of them elderly and North American. The picture is of a rather lovely, small yet extremely-proportioned yacht called Heron, 45' x 9'. I thought there was something Spiritesque about her coachroof...:rolleyes:

View attachment 20256
 
Last edited:
Came down the Orwell last weekend Ipswich to SHotley and "tangled" with a Spirit that was to my eye so drop dead gorgeous... Enhanced by modern sails and rig, and bloody quick... I wouldn't turn one down, and it would also be one of my Euromillions win purchases
 
Well, Spirit Yachts' website, in comparing their Spirit 130 with J Class boats, has some glaring typos . .
". . These old Classics are a finite resource and the first flurry of restorations that gave us Endeaver, Velsheda, Cambrai, Marriette, Moonbeam etc. has slowed to a mere trickle as that finite supply dries up. . . "
I hope they pay more attention to their boat-building !! :eek:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top