Spinnaker

[Fire99]

much

Thanks again William for taking the time with another fair ol description.

Regarding Spinny size, bottom line is that funds are not in vast supply and this is a very good second hand one taken from an identical boat and is the exact size specced by Thames Marine (who built my boat) back before the bow and arrow was invented.

So i'm currently in the 'make the best of what I have' stage of my life.

When funds become more plentiful, i'll either get that Oyster I promised myself or a selection of new sails.

 

[Fire99]

Thanks to all the contributions so far.

Lots of varied approaches and ideas. The info regarding Squibs is a good one. The Sailing club has a few so I may try and liaise with the 'squib folk' on what they do.

Just so we're clear, I think i've grasped that I need a Halyard above and fore of the forestay. so will be a little while before my Spinnaker is flying in anger.

On a side note, if some of it involves sailing out of control with the mast almost in the water, I have a mate or two who would relish that kind of excitement. We're an odd bunch.

 

[BobPrell]

I have been sailing with spinnakers for many years. That does not make me an expert because I don't sail often enough and some years I missed altogether. I have experienced that situation where the spinnaker was full, hauling hard on halyard and both sheets, pulling the boat right over and completely out of control.
Finally only a couple of years ago, someone told me how to recover from this situation.
The sheets must not have stopper knots in the ends. If the spinnaker overpowers the boat, let the sheet run free, right out of the turning block. The spinnaker will then be held by the guy and pole, and the halyard. It will be flapping, but unable to exert capsizing force on the boat.
After being told this simple precaution, a few weeks later the situation arose. Control was easily recovered. the freed sheet was floating lazily around in the breeze, it was quite easy to steer the boat to bring it within reach, rethread it and carry on sailing.
The sheet must of course be kept tidy and ready to run at all times. It helps to not have any great excess of line.

I have since checked every "how to sail" book in every library and bookshelf I go past (a lot) and have not seen this idea mentioned in one of them!

 

[DanTribe]

I'd almost forgetten this. For years we used to launch the kite from a plastic laundry basket which you could fix to the pulpit with bungee & hooks. A bit of bungee over the top to keep everthing in place until needed. You could unclip and take it below to repack. It worked very well and was cheap, don't know why we stopped using the system, perhaps you couldn't get dedicated marine laundry baskets with an expensive logo.
I think Sonatas had specially made circular pulpits to take these baskets, or was that just a lucky coincidence?

 

[Lakesailor]

I just looked at the Sonata site where Steve Goacher has some heavy weather sailing tips about kite flying

you must have been out in some pretty heavy weather.

Steve: Yes—particularly in the big boat races like the Scottish Series at Tarbert. I have to admit it’s only a few weeks since we broke our mast and smithereened the kite in the Winter Series on Windermere.


Jack: You must tell us more about that one.

Steve: Well, it was a pretty windy day and we were hit by a particularly nasty gust. The boat broached and rolled to windward and we tried to hang on too long. When the masthead hit the water, the boat was moving quite fast and the sails were still pulling. The mast went into a really big bend and something had to give, so the spreader punched its way through the mast wall.

Keeping the mast up is the limitation on sailing a Sonata in really heavy weather. The boats will take almost anything but beyond a certain speed downwind the hull shape won’t allow the boat to go any faster, so if you get a strong gust then the rig takes the whole force.

On his own site he recommends launching the spinnaker from the companionway

Spinnaker Stowage
We favour the companionway mounted bag for spinnaker stowage. This has the following advantages over the pulpit turtle.
* Less disturbance to the genoa airflow.
* Less likelihood of a broach due to foredeck man hanging over the bow.
* Faster spinnaker drops by more efficient utilization of crews efforts. i.e. Foredeckman puts pole away whilst middleman stows spinnaker. With a turtle drop everybody else stands around waiting for the foredeck man to put pole away then douse kite.
* All sharp edges should be taped. All excess equipment should be removed from the boat. Ropes should be the smallest acceptable size for the job and lengths should be cut back to exactly what you need and no more. This reduces tangles considerably. We make double tapered dyneema spinnaker sheets - we have never seen this type used anywhere else. They are strong, light and minimum bulk so you don't need lightweather sheets. Cleat types should be considered. Clams are great for holding power and not easily accidentally or intentionally released under load. Cams release much more easily under load and once uncleated the ropes runs through without re jambing. (Ideal for pole up and spin halyard, ensures fast drop).

I freely admit to having tried kite flying on a very windy day without enough preparation. I'm guessing it works much better if the wind is dependable for more than about 2 or 3 minutes.
I took this piccy from our moored boat shortly before setting off on a homeward run and suggesting we try the spinnaker. I may try again with my current boat, but it's a lot of faff unless you are racing. Our breezes are so very unreliable. You really only see racers using kites on the lake.

 

[Fire99]

I just looked at the Sonata site where Steve Goacher has some heavy weather sailing tips about kite flying


On his own site he recommends launching the spinnaker from the companionway


I freely admit to having tried kite flying on a very windy day without enough preparation. I'm guessing it works much better if the wind is dependable for more than about 2 or 3 minutes.
I took this piccy from our moored boat shortly before setting off on a homeward run and suggesting we try the spinnaker. I may try again with my current boat, but it's a lot of faff unless you are racing. Our breezes are so very unreliable. You really only see racers using kites on the lake.

Blimey, did the heel of the boat in the pic not make you think perhaps it's a little blowey for a Spinny???

 

[Lakesailor]

We were in Lazy Bay which is in the lee of a promontory.

It was a bit lax of me.

 

[Fire99]

We were in Lazy Bay which is in the lee of a promontory.

It was a bit lax of me.

Sounds Painful

Well no harm done, as they say. And on a personal note. I'm getting my spinny so i'll no doubt be having my fair share of 'out of shape' moments.

 

[upthesolent]

Evening folks,

Well i've dug around behind the sofa n robbed piggy and ordered myself a second hand Spinnaker for the mighty Snappie. So I think I now have a the full compliment of sails.
It's off another 'Snappie 23' so it's the exact right size as per how they were shipped out the factory.

Only one small point. I've never used on in my life. Any tips for a Spinnaker novice?

cheers,

Nik

I'm still looking for a 2nd hand one for my Leisure 23, but in the meantime spent a while researching them and Bookmarked this tutorial aimed at new users (comes with handy drawings) on my laptop for when I eventually make my purchase. Might be worth looking at,

http://www.hmc.edu/org/sailing/sailing-spinnaker.htm

 

[Fire99]

I'm still looking for a 2nd hand one for my Leisure 23, but in the meantime spent a while researching them and Bookmarked this tutorial aimed at new users (comes with handy drawings) on my laptop for when I eventually make my purchase. Might be worth looking at,

http://www.hmc.edu/org/sailing/sailing-spinnaker.htm

Ahh yes.. I've already read it... Some very good info.

If i'm brutally honest, if I had to buy new, I wouldn't bother at this stage as there are other things on the boat which would better deserve the money, but if a decent condition second hand one turns up for the right money it seems a worthwhile addition to the sail wardrobe.

If I see anything for a Leisure turn up, i'll let you know..

 

[William_H]

Spin launching

A laundry basket is quite good for holding the spin and I would suggest something similar for starters.
Re launching out of the cockpit. We did it this way for many years. It has the advantage of nothing hanging out the bow to give wind resistance and or get wet. I described the emergency retrieval into the cockpit which is just the reverse of launching this way. The downside to this launching is that it is a pain to get the spin set up on a different tack if you find that your launch will be on the other tack to what it is set up.
What we did was disconnect the spin tie the halyard and 2 sheets togehter and pull the joint around the forestay and back under the boom. Then reconnect spin. If you misjudge the tack you will be on when hoisting you can be in all sorts of trouble. You have a lot of guy to pull around the forestay and of course you need long sheets.
The hoist from a bow bag is OK for both tacks.
So we have settle to using the anchor hatch on the little boat. This is a box let into the deck just aft of the forestay just big enough to lay a danforth in on top of rope and chain. I cut the cover in half so the join is down the middle with hinges both sides. I cut a notch in the lid so sheets and halyard can exit with cover down and I fitted a little latch to keep it shut so hold spin in. The spin sits on top of the anchor. No 2 son the spin man reckons this is the best arrangement.
Re releasing the sheets in a broach. This is considered a good move especially in larger ocean racing boats. There is special knot which is simple figure 8 knot where the knot is not completed but left as bow.
It will work as stopper knot but a good pull on the tail removes the stopper. I confess however that I use an endless spin sheet so it can't be released. I will change it however sometime. I have lost crew overboard twice now when this procedure might have helped. 'I told them to hang on"!
Re second hand spins
If you have a domestic sewing machine a spin is something you can easily reduce in size. Cut the bottom off if it is too long and replace the eyelets and doubling up cloth in the corners.
To reduce area the easiest is to cut the middle out vertically and resew the centre seam. Do this by folding the spin in half long wise. Run a line of sewing a suitable distance in from the middle seam then double up the stitching. Then cut from the new line of stitching to the fold. This gives an ideal tall narrow spin for stronger winds. All good fun or great madness. olewill