Spinnaker Questions

Fire99

Fire99

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Apologies if this has been covered before but a little advice would be appreciated.

I'm doing a last minute rigging for my spinnaker on my Snapdragon 23. Some '23's' had spinnakers rigged as standard but mine is without the necessary.
Anyway, I'm intending to rig a block etc for the spinnaker halyard and there is an eye present on the mast for the pole.

My question is that normally there appears to be uphauls and downhauls for spinnaker poles but when researching a previous Snapdragon 23 owner, he flew the spinnaker pole without either.

What is the 'low-down' regarding pole 'up and down' hauls. Can I get by without them or do I definitely need to include them in my rigging job?

Time is a little pushed for launch day so I'm trying to not make things too complicated.


many thanks,


Nick
 
Can't speak about your particular boat, but you really do need them. Otherwise the pole will drop in light wind, tightening the luff when you probably don't want it tight. And in strong wind the pole will sky, in conditions when you really don't want it to sky.
 
fireball said:
I'd include them.
Click to expand...

+1

I imagine you could get by without an uphaul once the sail was set and drawing, but I can't see how you'd do without a downhaul to counteract the upwards pull of the sail.

Regardless, before the sail is set, it's very useful on a cruising boat to be able to fix the end of the pole in space - you're basically using the uphaul, downhaul (which also pulls forwards) and guy as three equally-spaced stays. Snug them all up (will also pull the windward clew of the spinnaker out to the end of the pole) and it's like tacking a jib to the stemhead except that this tack is out to one side of the boat. Then hoist with just halyard and sheet (to the other clew) to manage; you can adjust pole trim afterwards.

(Standing by to be corrected by those who have used symmetrical spinnakers more recently than I have :) )

Pete
 
I often fly a spinnaker without the downhaul but, as I am singlehanded, 10kts downwind is my max. A gust and slight broach can still catch you out, and sky the pole.

Unless you are intending to race you might feel it is worth giving it a try for a season. If you are planning to perform in all conditions then fit the lot.
 
Fire99 said:
Apologies if this has been covered before but a little advice would be appreciated.

I'm doing a last minute rigging for my spinnaker on my Snapdragon 23. Some '23's' had spinnakers rigged as standard but mine is without the necessary.
Anyway, I'm intending to rig a block etc for the spinnaker halyard and there is an eye present on the mast for the pole.

My question is that normally there appears to be uphauls and downhauls for spinnaker poles but when researching a previous Snapdragon 23 owner, he flew the spinnaker pole without either.

What is the 'low-down' regarding pole 'up and down' hauls. Can I get by without them or do I definitely need to include them in my rigging job?

Time is a little pushed for launch day so I'm trying to not make things too complicated.


many thanks,


Nick
Click to expand...

The down-haul is the most important to stop the pole going skywards pdq
 
Many thanks everyone.. Obviously not the best option for the 'work shy' :) but you're all repeating what I was kinda thinking.

Now one quick follow up. What diameter Spinnaker halyard would you suggest for a little 23footer?
 
If you have a spare jib halyard you can use that. it often has a better angle than many lower pole uphauls.
Barber haulers are worth rigging along the toerail at max beam, usually just aft of the chainplates. Mount a small padeye on the deck or toerail and run a line from a jammer in the cockpit to a block on this padeye and continue up to another block. Run the spinnaker sheet trough this block. It will reduce the need for a downhaul.
The harken website/catalogue have great diagrams and practicle examples.
 
sailorman said:
10>12 m/m braid on braid, handling comfort more important that strength
Click to expand...

yup - would agree with that - iirc we have a 12mm halyard on a 37'er ... again - comfort, not strength.
One thing to note would be that you don't want it too stretchy - but can probably do without the expensive dyneema/kevlar lines at £00's per mm :)
 
Thanks for the comments..

There is some discussion about leading the lines aft. However, after looking at mast base blocks, deck organisers and clutches etc by the companionway, it all gets rather expensive. Funds are pretty nominal so is there a cheap way to lead the lines aft or maybe just run the spinnaker halyard aft and leave pole control at the mast??

Any ideas that involve no more than lollysticks and egg-boxes, would be appreciated. :)
 
If you wish to race the boat oir are hung up on doing things properly then you need uphauls and downhauls. But you canm fly a spinny without either - you maybe have to be a little cautious about wind strengths if you do , but it will still work. In reality thats what we do most of the time in that we have the up and down hauls but we dont ever adjust them unless racing

.Obviously you need the sheet and guy led aft but thats just 2 blocks
 
Bosun Higgs said:
If you wish to race the boat oir are hung up on doing things properly then you need uphauls and downhauls. But you canm fly a spinny without either - you maybe have to be a little cautious about wind strengths if you do , but it will still work. In reality thats what we do most of the time in that we have the up and down hauls but we dont ever adjust them unless racing

.Obviously you need the sheet and guy led aft but thats just 2 blocks
Click to expand...

Many thanks..

I think if I can find a reasonable way to run the spinnaker halyard aft then as you say I can set the uphaul / downhaul for the pole at the mast (I'd guess) :)
 
I think you really need an uphaul to preset the pole before launching the kite.
Otherwise, it will sag in light air and be hard to set.
A downhaul is virtually essential, but you can get away without, if the guy is a long way forwards.
You don't need to adjust the up haul much, it could be fixed up the mast and tied off at the pole if needs be.
 
The block for the guy should be at the widest point of the beam which is usually well forward so you will get a lot of downward force from it. In our case this is almost abeam of the mast at the base of which is the downhaul block.
 
On our previous boat we had uphaul, downhaul and two sheets. The pole would be set up to the right height against the forestay. The windward sheet(guy) laid through the end of the pole and onto the spinnaker. The spinnaker was hoisted, behind the genoa, from the mast. The spinnaker halyard was then just hooked under a mast cleat and led back to a cleat in the cockpit. Genoa was rolled and spinnaker trimmed.
When the time came to douse, the pole was let lie against the forestay and the tack was unclipped. The sail was then lowered from the cockpit whilst pulling it in under the boom and into the main companionway with the sheet. Everything was then dismantled in slow time. This was normally done singlehanded and only in light wind conditions. The point being that everything is sequential, the only time you are doing two things at once is when lowering with the halyard and gathering in the sail, and there is no rush to get anything done.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
The block for the guy should be at the widest point of the beam which is usually well forward so you will get a lot of downward force from it. In our case this is almost abeam of the mast at the base of which is the downhaul block.
Click to expand...

Bigger boats might have a guy and sheet on each corner of the spin. Hence guy can be run through a deck pulley abeam or froward of the mast. This will be substitute for down haul.
However on most smaller boats you have just a sheet to each corner which becomes a guy when it is to wind ward and the pole is attached. Most people around here including me use tweakers This is a pulley for the sheet to go through which is on the end of a rope going through another pulley attached to gunwhale with the rope led aft. You can then pull the tweaker rope on the windward side this forcing the brace (guy) to come down to the gunwhale and so also holding the pole down.
Yes IMHO you do need a topping lift for the pole especially if it is heavy to help forward hand manage it. You can swing the pole back to attach sheet then forward to attach to mast ring (snotter) with most of the weight taken by the topping lift.
The pulley on deck for the tweakers should vbe about mid way bow to mast and on the gunwhale. Further forward gives more down power but limits how far back the pole can be flown. Further aft allows pole to swing right back but may permit pole to sky. (damages pole fittings on mast) good luck olewill
 
This is a great thread as I've just sold my cruising chute and replaced it with a symmetric spinnaker. I've used a spinnaker on previous boat and prefer it's versatility.

The boat already has a pole up haul but no down haul as yet.

I intend to fit a down haul, from eye on centre of pole via snap shackle to base of mast via 2 turning blocks to spare jammer on cabin top. Is this geometry OK or would I be better running the downhaul to the deck further forward?
 
surekandoo said:
This is a great thread as I've just sold my cruising chute and replaced it with a symmetric spinnaker. I've used a spinnaker on previous boat and prefer it's versatility.

The boat already has a pole up haul but no down haul as yet.

I intend to fit a down haul, from eye on centre of pole via snap shackle to base of mast via 2 turning blocks to spare jammer on cabin top. Is this geometry OK or would I be better running the downhaul to the deck further forward?
Click to expand...
greatly dependent on the size of the boat & pole.
small boat ok assuming the eye is adequate in strength
 
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