Spinnaker pole as derrick for dinghy

[LadyInBed]

a lot of people seem to be getting bigger and heavier tenders which they then cannot lift

Maybe it is also to do with wet bums and tube size!
AX3 Tube Diameter: 360mm Weight: 32 kg
Against say LoadStar NSA 260 (YM best buy) Tube Diameter: 410mm Weight: 32 kg
Note they are the same weight and the 260 will take a slightly bigger engine if required.

 

[RupertW]

Why not just get a tender you can lift?

It's a good point but we want a tender that can go some distance in a chop between an anchorage and town or landing spot. It needs to be able to carry 6-8 people when we have a few guests in board, i like it to be a decent rower, but also is our main tender most of the time with just 2 of us.

So our compromise is a 3m rib and the only downside is that it's a pain to lift, risks bending stanchions so we tow it too often when it would be better on deck. The pole is a way around the problem, especially as I do not want davits blocking passage from stern to dock when we are tied up.

 

[Upnorth]

A lot of race boats have a cam or clam cleat on the side of the mast, so you can 'bell ring the halliard and cleat it in one action, so nobody needs to tail the winch.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

[LadyInBed]

Can you explain what you mean by this?

One of these above mast winch - crank the winch and the cam locks the rope.

 

[jimi]

Why not just get a tender you can lift?

Got quite a high freeboard and why risk slipping a disc or bending a stanchion when there might be an easy smart way to do it?

 

[lw395]

Maybe it is also to do with wet bums and tube size!
AX3 Tube Diameter: 360mm Weight: 32 kg
Against say LoadStar NSA 260 (YM best buy) Tube Diameter: 410mm Weight: 32 kg
Note they are the same weight and the 260 will take a slightly bigger engine if required.

I suspect the Lodestar did not exist when I bought the AX3.
I do not think my AX-3 is 32kg. 23 more like? Unless you're including the engine?
I would weigh it, but it is on long term loan to a friend as I don't own a yacht right now.

 

[Blueboatman]

Two bits worth.
I have a three point hoist with pelican hooks for my aluminium dinghy, then either the self tailing mast winch or the windlass drum and a touch of leccy, easy . So far without recourse to spinnaker pole. Though if it were set 'across' the deck from the opposite toerail I am not sure you would even need guy rope or sheet at all, just hoist up till clear of the lifelines and swing 'er inboard...and down. Reckon the pole would need to be clipped on v near the bow though or adj to the shrouds. Hmm might have a play..
A wireless remote for the windlass would add that certain insouciant élan of course
Without a spi pole ( and my concern is how to avoid marking the toerail)..the dinghy glides quite nicely up past the stantions anyway . With a really heavy dinghy the boat heels. Sorta self correcting

 

[LadyInBed]

I do not think my AX-3 is 32kg. 23 more like?

Both links point to the Airdeck versions, so I was compairing like with like.
You are correct that the AX3 with slats is lighter by 3kg at 29kg.

 

[Uricanejack]

Sounds simpler and better, I like the snatch block idea as I can then use the spinnaker halyard to support the pole end rather than the uphaul .

I would strongly sugest you not use a snatch block to lift. To do so is a good way to get hurt.

In the past I have used the topping lift to rais a hard dingy. it worked quite well.

Spiniker poles are not designed or intended for lifting.
what you are sugesting is a jury rigged single swinging derrick.
Your main boom would be better.
it has a goosneck already.
It has topping lift already.
Might be to short.
might not swing far enough.
Might not be where you want to put dingy.

 

[Uricanejack]

After pulling a muscle last year lifting outboard or tender onto the boat - still not sure whether it was the lifting the outboard from the tender up or subsequently lifting the tender - I decided we needed an easier way.
Having setup so we could detach the mainsheet from the coachroof and so swing it out over the side as a way to lift a MOB I decided the same option could be used for the outboard and then tender.
What you do need to do though is raise the boom with the topping lift or main halyard so the tender is lifted high enough above the guardrails. For MOB we'd drop the guardrail.
I am not sure about the forces involved but with our small tender reckon they are less than those of sailing. I certainly think my pole would be much weaker than the boom.

Looks like a workable and safe solution.

 

[Uricanejack]

If you need a 6 or 8 person dingy. or RIB
you probabaly have a boat big enough to warrent a set of davits at stern. There are several manufacturers. some of which are suitable for even relativly smaller sailng vessels.
Of course you would probabaly have to lower the boat to use the swim ladder

 

[charles_reed]

Maybe it is also to do with wet bums and tube size!
AX3 Tube Diameter: 360mm Weight: 32 kg
Against say LoadStar NSA 260 (YM best buy) Tube Diameter: 410mm Weight: 32 kg
Note they are the same weight and the 260 will take a slightly bigger engine if required.

But probably not last as long in high UV area like the Med.

 

[jimi]

I would strongly sugest you not use a snatch block to lift. To do so is a good way to get hurt.

In the past I have used the topping lift to rais a hard dingy. it worked quite well.

Spiniker poles are not designed or intended for lifting.
what you are sugesting is a jury rigged single swinging derrick.
Your main boom would be better.
it has a goosneck already.
It has topping lift already.
Might be to short.
might not swing far enough.
Might not be where you want to put dingy.

Boom would be absolutely useless to put the dinghy on the foredeck unless you happen to have an unstayed mast!

Whilst a jury rigged derrick may not be the primary function of a spinnaker pole, the intention of this thread was to see if I could use it as such without damage.

 

[charles_reed]

It's a good point but we want a tender that can go some distance in a chop between an anchorage and town or landing spot. It needs to be able to carry 6-8 people when we have a few guests in board, i like it to be a decent rower, but also is our main tender most of the time with just 2 of us.

So our compromise is a 3m rib and the only downside is that it's a pain to lift, risks bending stanchions so we tow it too often when it would be better on deck. The pole is a way around the problem, especially as I do not want davits blocking passage from stern to dock when we are tied up.

A 3m RIB carrying 6-8 people!!

Wow they must be small/slim/light.

 

[lw395]

I would strongly sugest you not use a snatch block to lift. To do so is a good way to get hurt.

In the past I have used the topping lift to rais a hard dingy. it worked quite well.

Spiniker poles are not designed or intended for lifting.
what you are sugesting is a jury rigged single swinging derrick.
Your main boom would be better.
it has a goosneck already.
It has topping lift already.
Might be to short.
might not swing far enough.
Might not be where you want to put dingy.

Main boom has uses for lifting things into the cockpit.
Spinnaker pole is the obvious tool for the foredeck.
A few points.
In general, a spin pole is quite strong in pure compression, which means applying all the forces at the ends, not bending it via forces in the middle.
As you change its angle, the force from the halyard hoisting the dinghy can be up or down on the pole, so it should be guyed carefully.
Most poles are not designed to have a rope running through the end vertically, so I would use a snatch block secured to the pole end. Not a problem if it's an adequate block, the Lewmars ones I have are probably rated to lift a yacht not just a tender.
If it's anything which can be released under load, tape the trigger or whatever to prevent it getting snagged.

At the end of the day, commonsense do not stand under anything heavy suspended by a bit of string.

But I reckon I have a fair chance of inflating the AX3, rowing ashore and sinking a pint while people mess around with their derricks and heavy outboards.
It does make me see the attraction of a rib on davits though.

 

[RupertW]

A 3m RIB carrying 6-8 people!!

Wow they must be small/slim/light.

Well it is a compromise but we've seen that number get out of tiny dinghies from French boats.

 

[RupertW]

If you need a 6 or 8 person dingy. or RIB
you probabaly have a boat big enough to warrent a set of davits at stern. There are several manufacturers. some of which are suitable for even relativly smaller sailng vessels.
Of course you would probabaly have to lower the boat to use the swim ladder

Exactly - davits are like hanging your car at shoulder height across your front door.

 

[LadyInBed]

But probably not last as long in high UV area like the Med.

Both uPVC and a similar price.

 

[bobgarrett]

Boom would be absolutely useless to put the dinghy on the foredeck unless you happen to have an unstayed mast!

Whilst a jury rigged derrick may not be the primary function of a spinnaker pole, the intention of this thread was to see if I could use it as such without damage.

Once the tender is on the side desk it is easy to move it round to the foredeck, though we also sometimes strap it down on the coach roof. It is the lifting up that's awkward not the moving round. Indeed I think a lot of injuries are not due to the weight of an object but the difficult angle you have to hold your back/shoulder etc at.