Spinnaker packing (symmetric)

[Channel Sailor]

In the confines of the cabin I find packing my 40 squ m spinnaker a phaff. Even today packing it on a sail loft floor was not that obviously simple. Please can anyone point me to a good YouTube clip or technique to adopt. The way I pack it always seems to work ok when hoisted, but seemingly packed different each time and the stuffing in of the belly of the sail seems to end up with some of it escaping out of the turtle as I progress. Btw, no saloon table in the way.

 

[lpdsn]

Where does it go wrong?

My technique is.

Tie up the head.

Run a tape to one of the clews and tie that up.

Do the same for the other tape and other clew.

If time, space and conditions allow drag out the spinnaker a bit to get the middle ready to go into the bag first.

Bung it is working towards the corners. Handy if the bag will retain some shape as you pack rather than just being a heap - hard to explain but you probably know what I mean.

Untie one corner at a time and strap it in.

Seal up bag.

Sometimes if I know the course I'll make sure the guy end can come out freely first with the first ten or fifteen feet of spinnaker - I always do this with a-sails as no doubt there.

Not much too it really. With bigger sails handy to have a second person to help.

 

[Channel Sailor]

Ah, “tie up”. Now that is something new to me. Does that mean tie the corners up to something like the hand holds on the cabin deck head? Which means the rest of the sail is somewhat suspended but mainly in a heap on the floor, which would be easier to stuff in. I’ll try that because it is the stuffing in of the bulk of the sail being the part I don’t have decent technique for. Running the tapes, corners at the top etc and one clew ready to pull out first I am all ok with.

 

[Debenair]

Yep. Tie head to a handrail with a short sail tie or pop it over a hanging hook if you have one available. Ditto with clews. Then get stuffing. My daughter who did pit for many years from age 14 managed 100 m2 that way.

 

[savageseadog]

We have three hooks for the three corners

 

[lpdsn]

Ah, “tie up”. Now that is something new to me. Does that mean tie the corners up to something like the hand holds on the cabin deck head? Which means the rest of the sail is somewhat suspended but mainly in a heap on the floor, which would be easier to stuff in. I’ll try that because it is the stuffing in of the bulk of the sail being the part I don’t have decent technique for. Running the tapes, corners at the top etc and one clew ready to pull out first I am all ok with.

I can see how difficult it is for you now. Yes, just tie to corners up to something like a handhold. I just use sail ties but failing that whatever I can find. SavageSeaDog seems to have done a bit of preparation to make life easier for his crew.

Without the corners being fixed in place it's virtually impossible to pack a spinnaker properly - it certainly would take an awful lot longer.

Good luck with the next race.

 

[flaming]

We use the hatch handle, which is ideal. I am not a fan of hanging all 3 corners though, as when you hang them close together there is too much risk of accidentally twisting them when you unclip them at the end.

My packing goes like this.

1. Put bag on cabin sole, below where you're going to hang the head.
2. Find a tape and follow it to a corner. If that corner is the head, hang it up on the hatch handle. If it isn't the head throw it either forwards or backwards in the boat, whichever makes more sense given where the bulk of the sail is.
3. Follow the tapes down from the head to the clews and throw them in opposite directions as above. This spreads the corners out and ensures that you can't pack it twisted.
4. Run the Foot between the clews, ensuring that all the sail stays one side of the foot, and over the open bag.
5. Stuff the sail in the bag until only the 3 corners are out.
6. Attach the corners to the bag using their velcro tags and close the bag.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you want to be really posh you get a bucket and cut the bottom out of it. You then load the bucket up with elastic bands (stretch them over the outside - you might have to experiment with the size of elastic bands you use and you don't want them too strong or thick.)

Find head of spinnaker and feed it through the bucket and tie it up or get an assistant to pul it through as you work your way down the two tapes and pull the bucket along with you, sliding an elastic band off every metre or two. You end up with a long sausage of spinnaker that you then flake into the turtle. (attach tie the clews first and flake the rest in as far as the head so it hoists out as a long sausage.)

At the hoist, you pull the head to the top of the mast with the one clew up to the pole. A quick tug on the sheet (on the other clew) and the whole spinnaker pops open as the elastic bands either break or end up at the head of the sail.

In light winds I find it better not to put an elastic too near the head.

Hope that all makes sense. If you are doing multiple hoists, you get through a lot of elastic bands...

 

[slipknot]

Put your feet in the bag to hold it open as you stuff the sail in

 

[flaming]

If you want to be really posh you get a bucket and cut the bottom out of it. You then load the bucket up with elastic bands (stretch them over the outside - you might have to experiment with the size of elastic bands you use and you don't want them too strong or thick.)

Find head of spinnaker and feed it through the bucket and tie it up or get an assistant to pul it through as you work your way down the two tapes and pull the bucket along with you, sliding an elastic band off every metre or two. You end up with a long sausage of spinnaker that you then flake into the turtle. (attach tie the clews first and flake the rest in as far as the head so it hoists out as a long sausage.)

At the hoist, you pull the head to the top of the mast with the one clew up to the pole. A quick tug on the sheet (on the other clew) and the whole spinnaker pops open as the elastic bands either break or end up at the head of the sail.

In light winds I find it better not to put an elastic too near the head.

Hope that all makes sense. If you are doing multiple hoists, you get through a lot of elastic bands...

Sorry John, this is very outdated advice for a practice that has been banned by world sailing and needs to stop. If you are racing this breaks rule 55, and has been clarified as such even if the material used is biodegradable. And if you're not racing then you still end up putting rubbish in the water.

Anyone who saw the last episode of Blue Planet should be anti this practice...

 

[john_morris_uk]

Sorry John, this is very outdated advice for a practice that has been banned by world sailing and needs to stop. If you are racing this breaks rule 55, and has been clarified as such even if the material used is biodegradable. And if you're not racing then you still end up putting rubbish in the water.

Anyone who saw the last episode of Blue Planet should be anti this practice...

My apologies. Shows how long since I went serious racing. Disregard all I said.

PS. I am not familiar with it but I assume rule 55 applies even if one uses biodegradable bits of some sort of twine?

 

[aussi]

I use the door handle on the heads for hanging up the corners. Works for me and it’s quick as it doesn’t involve any extra hooks or ties, and my door handle is the perfect shape - however for learning it might be better to tie the corners up higher as others have suggested.

 

[lpdsn]

PS. I am not familiar with it but I assume rule 55 applies even if one uses biodegradable bits of some sort of twine?

Yes. A bit of a problem for those with really big kites but some of the bigger sailmakers have started offering various acceptable solutions.

PS Rule 55 came in in 2013, IIRC, and is a ban on intentionally throwing waste overboard.

 

[flaming]

My apologies. Shows how long since I went serious racing. Disregard all I said.

PS. I am not familiar with it but I assume rule 55 applies even if one uses biodegradable bits of some sort of twine?

From the ISAF racing rules question and answer service. Here.

http://sailingleadership.org/wp-con...014/rules-officials/Friday/20140115QABooklet-[16195].pdf

ISAF Racing Rules Question and Answer Service
N 002 Q&A 2013-028 Published: 17 June 2013
Situation
It is common practice to prepare the spinnaker by tying it together with rubber bands at intervals,
to prevent the spinnaker from filling during the hoist. Once hoisted and sheeted, the rubber bands
will break, the spinnaker will open, and ultimately, the rubber bands will end up in the water.

Question 1
Does this action break new rule 55?

Answer 1
Yes

Question 2
If the answer to Question 1 is yes, would it make any difference if the material used was biodegradable?

Answer 2
No

 

[Channel Sailor]

Thank you for the tips.

All this chat about spinnaker packing has finally jogged my memory that I was taught in May 1994 to pack a spinnaker by tying up the corners. How do I know this, I just checked in my old RYA log nook. It was on an Oyster lightwave 395 (40ft loa with masthead rig). I can now remember the handrails along the sides of the saloon that I used. Also recall it was a lot of spinnaker sail material when in the saloon and when set. That yacht was called Redskin and it had a huge graphic on the spinnaker.

Memorably in the 1990s I was spectating either RTIR or Fastnet fleet passing at Hurst Castle when the spinnaker of Redskin came into view. I willed it on but sadly as the tide picked up, the apparent wind changed and this lovely distinctive spinnaker wrapped into an hour glass on the forestay. Glad I was not on the crew that day.

Maybe along comes fourmite lw395 next.

 

[TallBuoy]

We use the hatch handle, which is ideal. I am not a fan of hanging all 3 corners though, as when you hang them close together there is too much risk of accidentally twisting them when you unclip them at the end.

My packing goes like this.

1. Put bag on cabin sole, below where you're going to hang the head.
2. Find a tape and follow it to a corner. If that corner is the head, hang it up on the hatch handle. If it isn't the head throw it either forwards or backwards in the boat, whichever makes more sense given where the bulk of the sail is.
3. Follow the tapes down from the head to the clews and throw them in opposite directions as above. This spreads the corners out and ensures that you can't pack it twisted.
4. Run the Foot between the clews, ensuring that all the sail stays one side of the foot, and over the open bag.
5. Stuff the sail in the bag until only the 3 corners are out.
6. Attach the corners to the bag using their velcro tags and close the bag.

Do tell .... as a helmsman, how often do you actually pack the kite ??

 

[flaming]

Do tell .... as a helmsman, how often do you actually pack the kite ??

Between most races.
The owner / Navigator and I normally pack the kite together whilst we talk over the last race and any changes for the next one.

 

[Kerenza]

I must admit most of the spinnaker packing during a race is done by number one crew, my wife. Kite dropped through the forehatch into the forward cabin. Miraculously appears a little later ready to go again.
However on the occasions I help her She takes the red clew to the red Velcro on the bag, runs the foot through to the green clew and attaches that to the green Velcro on the right of the bag. Then pulls the foot from the middle into the bag stuffing each side in as she goes, making sure the centre is always untwisted.When she gets to the sail head it attaches to the centre Velcro and the bag is closed. 120sqm. In less than 5 mins.
Unless its wet, then someone else's job!
We vary about how often, but if there's any chance of a different kite next hoist, we always pack.

 

[Daydream believer]

Put your feet in the bag to hold it open as you stuff the sail in

Then when it is all in you duck down & do the velcro up over your head
On the next hoist when half way up the mast you jump out like superman & go " Boo"
You will not get the job anymore !!!

 

[MissFitz]

She takes the red clew to the red Velcro on the bag, runs the foot through to the green clew and attaches that to the green Velcro on the right of the bag. Then pulls the foot from the middle into the bag stuffing each side in as she goes, making sure the centre is always untwisted.When she gets to the sail head it attaches to the centre Velcro and the bag is closed. 120sqm. In less than 5 mins.

I was taught a similar method by a Frenchman, vis - attach head to something; run down both tapes (so kite is laid out full length or near equivalent); attach clews to kite bag velcros; go down each side stuffing edge of sail into side of bag; when you get to the head, gather the body of the kite & stuff it into the middle of the bag. Has worked pretty well so far.