Spinnaker/ cruising chute

[Searush]

Best sail(s) in the locker or more trouble than they're worth?

I suspect this may split along Cruiser vs Racer or Solo vs Crewed lines.

What are the big benefits for you & what do you do to reduce the hassles?

FWIW I got a cruising chute with the boat (in 1988) & have used it less than a handful of times. Always too much wind or so little it will hardly stay filled or I'm in a narrow winding channel & gibing it is just too much hassle with a light crew.

 

[Topcat47]

I've a spinnaker that came with the boat. It's been washed more often than it's been used.

I decided not to go with a Gennaker or Cruising chute.

Then I found out about the parasail. "kinnell it was expensive and I swithered and dithered all over the place until eventually bit the bullet and bought one. It's bloody wonderful. I can set and fly it single handed. In anything under a F4 it's a fantastic downwind sail. In a F3 or less it'll handle a broad reach, too. Under it's influence SWMBO thinks the boat's incredibly more stable downwind.

I really wish I'd bought it years ago. The best sail I've ever invested in.

 

[Uricanejack]

I don't have much expierience with a cruising shute but I enjoy putting my spiniker up. my boat was small just 24ft so not a problem short handed. My auto pilot consisted of a bunggee cord with a knot so I found single hand a bit awkward.
if my daugher was on tiller mostly ok unless she spotted cute little seals while I was on fordeck which was also a bit awkward.
Im in midst of negotiation on a 35. Spiniker was a must have for me. hot and cold water and a shower. I could live without. So I am interested in the boat with the gear and a spiniker. odly I rarly race.

 

[TonyMS]

Go gennaker. Hoist while still at anchor or moored. Then unroll, roll as often as needed from the comfort of the cockpit. May not have the power of a spin, but sure beats a spin in the locker.

They work especially well on cats, where you have a wide sheeting base.

Tony MS

 

[Searush]

I don't have much expierience with a cruising shute but I enjoy putting my spiniker up. my boat was small just 24ft so not a problem short handed. My auto pilot consisted of a bunggee cord with a knot so I found single hand a bit awkward.
if my daugher was on tiller mostly ok unless she spotted cute little seals while I was on fordeck which was also a bit awkward.
Im in midst of negotiation on a 35. Spiniker was a must have for me. hot and cold water and a shower. I could live without. So I am interested in the boat with the gear and a spiniker. odly I rarly race.

But did you graduate to cruisers from a dinghy with a spinny? I am guessing that pocket hanky spinnies are manageable & help build confidence & handling skills. At F3-4 when my cruising chute would add most power, it is a real handful to gibe or adjust.

 

[vyv_cox]

We absolutely love the spinnaker. It's quite big, on a masthead rigged boat, but with experience and skill it has never been a problem. Most of my really memorable sails over the last 20 years have been under spinnaker. For us the secret is to have a manageable method of hoisting and dropping it, tailored for two people in cruising mode.

Using the racing methods doesn't work when short-handed, for example dropping it down the companionway is labour intensive, both for getting it there and for repacking afterwards. We drop it behind the mainsail back into the turtle, without disconnecting sheets and guys. Takes longer but I can do virtually all of it myself, with some assistance from Jill on the helm.

 

[TimBennet]

We absolutely love the spinnaker. It's quite big, on a masthead rigged boat, but with experience and skill it has never been a problem. Most of my really memorable sails over the last 20 years have been under spinnaker. For us the secret is to have a manageable method of hoisting and dropping it, tailored for two people in cruising mode.

Using the racing methods doesn't work when short-handed, for example dropping it down the companionway is labour intensive, both for getting it there and for repacking afterwards. We drop it behind the mainsail back into the turtle, without disconnecting sheets and guys. Takes longer but I can do virtually all of it myself, with some assistance from Jill on the helm.

Change the name on the helm (and the time scale) and I could have written that!

The only thing I would add is to add an 'aft guy' direct to the pole so that stays out of trouble while you concentrate on the spinnaker.

 

[Seajet]

But did you graduate to cruisers from a dinghy with a spinny? I am guessing that pocket hanky spinnies are manageable & help build confidence & handling skills. At F3-4 when my cruising chute would add most power, it is a real handful to gibe or adjust.

Searush,

there's a lot of truth in what you say !

I used to sail racing dinghies where we'd bung up the spinnaker in almost any weather, but when I graduated to cruisers it's a whole different ball game.

I have a tradional style radial head spinnaker I hardly use, and - after seeing how user friendly it was on an International 14 dinghy - a tri-radial asymmetric cruising chute which I find much easier to set, lets us point up to a close reach too.

I usually sail alone or with inexperienced people, so the 290 sq ft kite would be asking for a mention and photo on here as I went past at 20 knots yelling " aaargh " in doppler effect !

 

[seumask]

We have a cruising chute, I'd prefer a spinnaker however we now fly the cruising chute from a pole so can go down wind properly with it and its nearly as good as a spinnaker. Before I get a spinnaker I wish I had a suffer as it means we are limited to F3 to get it down two handed and I would like to be able to single hand and drop under auto pilot.

 

[tokoloshe]

To Searush

Smart arse. Race a regatta on an International 14. and then try again with you disparaging comments on dinghy sailors.

 

[PeterR]

I don't have much expierience with a cruising shute but I enjoy putting my spiniker up. my boat was small just 24ft so not a problem short handed. My auto pilot consisted of a bunggee cord with a knot so I found single hand a bit awkward.
if my daugher was on tiller mostly ok unless she spotted cute little seals while I was on fordeck which was also a bit awkward.
Im in midst of negotiation on a 35. Spiniker was a must have for me. hot and cold water and a shower. I could live without. So I am interested in the boat with the gear and a spiniker. odly I rarly race.

When I had a 23 footer I used the spinnaker most weekends both crewed and single handed, offshore and in the river. Its easy on a boat that size.

Now on a 34 footer I only use the spinnaker when racing or with a decent size crew. Its certainly still possible short handed but there is too much opportunity for getting in a mess particularly at close quarters. I don’t even keep it on the boat any more unless I know I am going to need it,

I do have a cruising chute that is only a bit smaller but I tame that in a squeezer. I no longer use it in the river after finding myself getting trapped close to a lee shore in a rising breeze but offshore I still fly it single handed in force 4 or less, In winds above that the extra speed isn’t enough to offset the hassle when short handed but in lighter winds it can add 2 to 3 knots boat speed and can often make the difference between having to motor or remain sailing.

I find the useful apparent wind angle is from about 70 degrees to 120 apparent. (perhaps 130 with the prodder fitted.) To sail any deeper you need to either rig it as a conventional spinnaker or more easily just goose wing it on the pole like a big headsail.

The loss in speed compared to a full spinnaker is marginal and would only be noticed when racing.

 

[nickbailhache]

Brought up with spinnakers. Had a cruising chute on Moody 31 for 24 years and then bought a spinnaker. Best investment I have made! Controlled at both tacks and luff not as long as a cruising chute and it does not get wet when lowering with 2 people. Spi fine up to 18 knots with autopilot. Needs to come down in any more wind.

Crew love the spi - much easier to control!

Nick

 

[TSB240]

Best sail(s) in the locker or more trouble than they're worth?

I suspect this may split along Cruiser vs Racer or Solo vs Crewed lines.

What are the big benefits for you & what do you do to reduce the hassles?

FWIW I got a cruising chute with the boat (in 1988) & have used it less than a handful of times. Always too much wind or so little it will hardly stay filled or I'm in a narrow winding channel & gibing it is just too much hassle with a light crew.

Steve

Your probably wasting your time on the Menai cut with a cruising chute. You know it is very rare that the wind actually blows remotely sideways across the ditch.

It either blows from NE to SW or SW to NE never anything else. If it does it is like sailing at the bottom of a coal mine...with 180 degree windshifts.

So you will only get to the most out of it once of the Straits. You can pole your cruising chute out but this really is a pain if short handed.

If you are heading downwind try gooswinging your crusing chute so you only ever gybe the main. This works in lighter airs and is much easier than gybing chute if shorthanded.

We used our spinnaker 4 times last year and on one of those occasions the rowers over took us!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79352891/RWREP/IMAG0162.jpg

We tried sailing through swellies with just the spinnaker only to find the wind was head on as we turned the corner.

The other times were great as we were able to romp back from the IOM and Rhoscolyn at an outrageous speed for a 24footer. Mind you any ripples on the water and the Admiral tends to get a bit twitchy about using it!

Yes I come from a dinghy racing background and our favourite class had one of the biggest kites for its length and no trapeze. Learning to bear away on a gust is as important in a dinghy as much as a keel boat with a kite.

 

[PeterR]

Brought up with spinnakers. Had a cruising chute on Moody 31 for 24 years and then bought a spinnaker. Best investment I have made! Controlled at both tacks and luff not as long as a cruising chute and it does not get wet when lowering with 2 people. Spi fine up to 18 knots with autopilot. Needs to come down in any more wind.

Crew love the spi - much easier to control!

Nick

I think 32 feet is about the maximum for confident shorthanded spinnaker handling in winds of 20 knots. I sail with a friend on his Dehler 31 and as you say handling the spinnaker 2 up is not a problem. In fact he does it single handed in not much less wind. However, we don’t try the same on my 34 footer, the spinnaker is very significantly bigger.

 

[xyachtdave]

To Searush

Smart arse. Race a regatta on an International 14. and then try again with you disparaging comments on dinghy sailors.

Mentioning the dinghy spinnaker is slightly smaller is disparaging......?

Man problems....they always comes done to size!

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think 32 feet is about the maximum for confident shorthanded spinnaker handling in winds of 20 knots. I sail with a friend on his Dehler 31 and as you say handling the spinnaker 2 up is not a problem. In fact he does it single handed in not much less wind. However, we don’t try the same on my 34 footer, the spinnaker is very significantly bigger.

I am happy enough using the asymetric spinnaker when singlehanded but do feel I am pushing my luck sometimes when sailing within the confines of the river. Always have a second person on board when using the symetric spinnaker - one to steer and other to play with the string!

 

[Searush]

To Searush

Smart arse. Race a regatta on an International 14. and then try again with you disparaging comments on dinghy sailors.

Not disparaging at all, & sorry you felt I was having a go at you. Pleas.e accept my apologies.

A Mirror or GP14 spinny is flown from 2/3 of the rig height & easily managed 2-handed. Such sails really do help people to learn how to handle spinny's in a safe environment. My cruising chute sheet could probably sever my hand at the wrist if I was stupid (or unlucky) enough to get a turn around my wrist in a F4. I doubt even an Int 14 would have that level of power even in a higher wind force. But if you have to sail with a hook these days, I can only apologise again.

Edit; read a few of the replies that came in while typing this; the size of the boat is important, it takes a lot more force to pull a 7 ton boat a few knots faster than it does for a 1/2 ton dinghy with two blokes on it. Most dinghies are also capable of planing where the forces cease to be directly related to speed.

 

[tokoloshe]

I would never compare dinghies and yachts, although some of the maxi sledges do seem to have their design origins in modern high performance dinghies.

On my first sail to the States, I hopped over the reaching strut on a 42ft IOR boat, (admission of age), and the dangers were explained to me. "Dinghy sailors get hurt, big boat sailors get crippled".

Trimming spinnakers on the edge is "the most fun you can have with your clothes on".... Does anyone remember bloopers?

I don't race any more and don't miss it. But any yacht wanting a hook won't find me wanting.

Enjoy your sport, symmetric or asymmetric.

 

[wotayottie]

Best sail(s) in the locker or more trouble than they're worth?

I suspect this may split along Cruiser vs Racer or Solo vs Crewed lines.

Absolutely right. When racing and with a masthead rig in a cruising boat there is no alternative to a spinnaker. But I never try to use it cruising with swmbo or 2 up. Admittedly my boat spinny kit is a bit heavy and unfriendly, but all in all using the spinny lightly crewed simply isnt worth the risk involved.

Cruising chute? Its a sort of half way house but no better than the genny dead down wind gets blanketed unless gossewinged. If I had one I might use it in a snuffer when with swmbo but I doubt it.

Best solution is a gennaker on a furler in a light cruiser racer where you can tack downwind.

 

[wotayottie]

We absolutely love the spinnaker. It's quite big, on a masthead rigged boat, but with experience and skill it has never been a problem. Most of my really memorable sails over the last 20 years have been under spinnaker. For us the secret is to have a manageable method of hoisting and dropping it, tailored for two people in cruising mode.

Using the racing methods doesn't work when short-handed, for example dropping it down the companionway is labour intensive, both for getting it there and for repacking afterwards. We drop it behind the mainsail back into the turtle, without disconnecting sheets and guys. Takes longer but I can do virtually all of it myself, with some assistance from Jill on the helm.

Can you expand on the detail of how you manage the spinny two up? Do you use a sock for example? Exactly what is the sequence for dropping it?