spinnaker bag - where?

Birdseye

Birdseye

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Hitherto I have always used my turtle in front of the forestay on the pullpit. But with a full sized masthead spinny on a 35ft boat, it is bulky and fouls the roller reef. So tomorrow I am going to use the guard rail gab that I have. Simple question - do I clip it to the guard rails on the pole side of the forestay or on the genoa side?
 
You clip it to the wires ahead of the mainsail. I use a lazy guy/sheet system with all lines quite long. Take the sheet from the turtle aft and cleat it just about where it falls, with maybe a little slack. Run the guy through the pole end, then back to the winch. In the cockpit, hoist the pole, then hoist the spinnaker. It will be blanketed by the main but will fill when you wind in the guy. The sheet will be just about right, adjust slightly as necessary.

When you drop it, don't follow the usual advice about unclipping the guy and hauling the spinnaker under the boom and into the saloon via the companionway. Instead, let the guy go or get the helm to do it. Gather the spinnaker foot while sitting next to the turtle and stuff it in while the helm releases the halyard. An alternative if singlehanded or if the helm cannot do it is to trail the halyard astern, which provides just enough friction for the sail to fall slowly. Doing it this way means no repacking and the spinnaker is always ready for use.
 
M
vyv_cox said:
You clip it to the wires ahead of the mainsail. I use a lazy guy/sheet system with all lines quite long. Take the sheet from the turtle aft and cleat it just about where it falls, with maybe a little slack. Run the guy through the pole end, then back to the winch. In the cockpit, hoist the pole, then hoist the spinnaker. It will be blanketed by the main but will fill when you wind in the guy. The sheet will be just about right, adjust slightly as necessary.

When you drop it, don't follow the usual advice about unclipping the guy and hauling the spinnaker under the boom and into the saloon via the companionway. Instead, let the guy go or get the helm to do it. Gather the spinnaker foot while sitting next to the turtle and stuff it in while the helm releases the halyard. An alternative if singlehanded or if the helm cannot do it is to trail the halyard astern, which provides just enough friction for the sail to fall slowly. Doing it this way means no repacking and the spinnaker is always ready for use.
Click to expand...

I've done that in ultra light winds on our boat but I'm not confident it's going to go to plan in a breeze. Our kite is 54' on the luff. In other words it's BIG!
 
I wonder about clipping on the turtle under the genoa whic is maybe 12 in off the deck and well below the top guard rail. It wont be easy for the foredeck man to put it there let alone run on set of sheets round the forestay to clip on. Surely it has to be easier to clip the bag onto the guard rails on the windward side .
 
With my little boat we have been racing it for 30 years using spin perhaps 3 or 4 hoists per race. I would certainly say keep trying different methods. We started off and for years hoisted the spin out of and stuffed it into a bag mounted in front of and on the bow rail. This means that you can easily hoist on any tack with sheets etc permanently connected.
The down side was that the little boat could not take the weight of a crew right up front with spin up and on the brink (and beyond) of disaster.
We then went to hoisting and rerieving under tthe boom into the cabin. Needs long or in my case endless sheets. This takes a fair bit of work to set up for a different tack from the last leg. We used to disconnect the spin and tie sheets and halyard together and then haul around the front of the boat and back into the cabin to reconnect spin.
This method of rerieval however is still the safest if things go bad. No one out of the cockpit. It needs long sheets and down hauls and makes a real mess but very safe. I retain the option.
Currently we stow the spin in the anchor locker. I have modified the lid to 2 lids opening clam shell style. The spin is reasonably easy to hoist regardless of whether the spin ends up on the windward or leeward side of the forestay. It being just aft of the forestay. We seem to manage with a crew weight up front but not so far up front as previously.
So now I don't worry about which tack we are to set on just put the pole on and haul. Incidentally the symetrical pole now lives on the side of the mast very successfyully. Always attached to the topping lift so can't be lost.
Now my little story is really not very useful to you with a much bigger boat.Most of the somewhat bigger boats in our club (and a fleet of 36ft competition boats)(Foundation 36) fly the spin out of an open forward hatch. Yes you have to pull the sheets and halyard around to set up for the correct tack on the next leg but it must be the best way to go.
I don't like the idea of an open hatch unlocked but it seems the best arrangement. I hope this gives you some ideas olewill
 
I would say leeward behind Genoa 1/2 way between shrouds and fore-stay is good place to start after that moving it a bit each way by trial an error can make a difference...

Hoisting behind the Genoa also makes it easier...
 
birdseye said:
I wonder about clipping on the turtle under the genoa whic is maybe 12 in off the deck and well below the top guard rail. It wont be easy for the foredeck man to put it there let alone run on set of sheets round the forestay to clip on. Surely it has to be easier to clip the bag onto the guard rails on the windward side .
Click to expand...

Yes, it is much easier to clip it on to the windward guard rails. That is why you see a lot of racing boats do that. Of course they then tack before they hoist.

Trying to hoist on the windward side is a disaster waiting to happen.

In this video you will see a singlehanded hoist at about 10 sec and a drop at about 2:10. I trail the tack line and the halyard over the stern. That means the lines are free to run through the clutches. I also use one turn around the winch for the halyard to give a bit of extra friction.

I think that for most cruising boats, the ability to re-launch quickly is less important than making sure there are no screw-ups in either the hoist or the drop. Even if you gather the kite into the cockpit you can still just stuff it into the bag and re-launch. Some boats have a way to clip the turtle into the companionway so you can just stuff it in and re-launch - either directly from there (this was standard on the J-24s I raced on) or move the turtle back to the guard wires for the next hoist.

For those who race windward/leeward, it doesn't really matter much on small boats which side you drop on. If necessary you just do a quick gybe, hoist without a pole, gybe again then attach the pole. But that is getting way beyond what most cruisers are interested in doing.

 
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Thanks bbg. NIce video - I must have a good look at that when I have time.

You dont seem to be using a pole and the boat is a bit smaller with a smaller headsail. The problem of a side launch bag in our case is that we would have to push it under the bottom of a low and heavy laminate 135% sail, then go to the bow to try and feed the guy round the forestay before attaching to the clew. The sheet would be a bit easier but not a lot. And there is the halyard. Sure if we were tacking at the mark we couyld attach on the windward side but all of our racing outside the bay is round channel marks which means we are rarely turning through more than 60 degrees at a mark. So we might be freeing off from a hard beat to 120 degrees and the spinny would need to be on the rail under the genoa.

Chickened out today and used the round bag on the pullpit. Whats more it went up and came down almost without problem. Hoes about that? :encouragement:
 
Tip to get the sheet and guy to the bag under the sail is to keep the sheet & guy at the bow when sailing. When it comes time to put them on the spinnaker clip them together and pull them till they are in line with the launch position. Assuming your cruising you can always wait till you have eased the jib to put the spinnaker bag in place.

If your racing make sure its set up before your last tack to the mark or you should have a light but tall & strong fore-deck hand you just tell them to get on with it.
 
birdseye said:
Thanks bbg. NIce video - I must have a good look at that when I have time.

You dont seem to be using a pole and the boat is a bit smaller with a smaller headsail. The problem of a side launch bag in our case is that we would have to push it under the bottom of a low and heavy laminate 135% sail, then go to the bow to try and feed the guy round the forestay before attaching to the clew. The sheet would be a bit easier but not a lot. And there is the halyard. Sure if we were tacking at the mark we couyld attach on the windward side but all of our racing outside the bay is round channel marks which means we are rarely turning through more than 60 degrees at a mark. So we might be freeing off from a hard beat to 120 degrees and the spinny would need to be on the rail under the genoa.

Chickened out today and used the round bag on the pullpit. Whats more it went up and came down almost without problem. Hoes about that? :encouragement:
Click to expand...

You could partially roll the genoa (assuming it is roller) so it just fills the foretriangle. Doing that also increases the foot to deck clearance.
 
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