Spinaker set up

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JohnMilsom

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Hi, I could use some advice on rigging and managing the spinaker on my Oceanis 321. Whenever I try to fly the spinaker, the outboard end of the pole goes up way high, and I have no way of controlling the height of the sail. The sheet the pole is connected to is then pulling down and back, and consequently it is difficult to control the shape or position of the sail.

Here's how everything is set up currently, but I am obviously missing someing, and any help on what would be much appreciated:

1. Sp pole clipped onto mast at one end and onto a sheet at the other.
2. Sp pole uphaul clipped onto outboard end of the pole.
3. Two sheets running from the bottom corners of the Spinaker to blocks on the aft quarters.

Do I need some kind of downhaul on the pole? (There are no flixtures on the boat for this).

Any advice much appreciated. Feel free to ask for more info if you need it.

Thanks,

John.
 
Worried looks and the odd profanity! Why does the wind pick up when the spinny goes up? I remember that from my dinghy sailing days.

Should the downhaul fix the prob entirely? If I put a line from the outboard end of the pole back to the foredeck or a block at the base of the mast should that work?

Thanks!!!!
 
No, your pole needs to be controlled from the middle, attached to either end,as it wont work when you gybe the kite. There should be attachment eyes in the end fittings to top and bottom of the castings.
 
At the risk of becoming boring - thanks! I will give that a try. I like the idea of a wire bridle as shown in the picture on the web link.

Cheers, John.
 
Yep, Downhaul AND Bridles above and below.

If you get tired of adjusting Uphaul and Downhaul every time you tweak the Guy, then leading the Pole Down to a block at the base of the mast means the whole lot moves in one (vertical) plane forward or back without any fuss. However. very long poles don't like that arrangement - not enough purchase to tighten the kite luff.

When you get fed up with gybing (that's after endless Committee meetings on Dip-Pole versus End-for-End) then duplicate the whole lot (unless racing in class and it's proscribed of course.) Yep, twin poles, in fact 2 of everything, means a lot of string but gybing is a doddle, believe me.
 
Take a look at my spinnaker pole - as someone else has said you need a deck fitting - I'd stress that there needs to be a decent pad beneath it as the stresses can be considerable
Claymore_July_06_003.jpg
 
Additional info to the advice already given:

The spinnaker will "lift" as wind strength increases. If you have a mast track on the inboard end of the pole then this should be adjusted to keep the pole horizontal.

Also the angle of the pole should always be at 90 degrees to the apparent wind.

Hope this isn't stating the obvious but as you asked whether a downhaul was required then hopefully this might be useful info.
 
Don't do what they've done in the photo posted by Claymore - the downhaul needs to be either via a bridle or to the outboard end of the pole - as shown, the pole is liable to bend at the attachment point of the downhaul. Uphaul less of a problem, as the load it sees is only what a crew puts on it, downhaul subject to whatever load spinnaker generates in a puff. Closer look at photo suggests that's an extendable whisker pole being used as a spinnaker pole - probably okay for light stuff, but at risk of failure at either the downhaul attachment, or the sleeve where the pole extends.

On downhaul to end of pole - that's fine, but doesn't allow end-for-end gybes and you need to dip pole to gybe. Depends how your pole is set up, and whether you want to end-for-end or are happy to dip-pole.
 
Yes you need a down haul. It needs to have a fair bit of power. I have used for a long time individual down hauls from a point about 1 mette back from the bow on the gunwhale attached to the end of the pole. From this position you can get a fair bit of pole movement from forward to back without adjustment and the geometry is such that it gives the most power. The down side is that the down haul must be changed at each jibe.
Most smaller boats use a downhaul from near the base of the mast to a bridle on the pole attaching in the middle. The geometry is such that you don't get a lot of power.

Most larger boats use down haul and barber haulers on the spin sheets/braces. This is where the sheet/brace runs through a pulley attached to a rope running from a pulley on the gunwhale about midships. You pull the barber hauler hard so that the brace feeds from a point lower than the pole and so gives a component of down haul. The advantage is that it also pulls the brace from a point further outboard improving the angle when the pole is froward on the forestay. (when reaching)
I have found (though many argue) that when reaching the pole should be raised a fair bit to free the luff. Using the barber hauler as you allow the pole to rise you lose this component of pulling the brace sheeting outward.

A better arrangement when reaching is to use a small whisker pole to force the brace out beyond the gunwhale while the down haul or barber hauler controls height of the pole.
Dipping the pole is a way of jibing where the pole attachment at the mast is raised up the mast as far as necessary to allow the pole to be swung down through the fore triangle inside forestay and then out the other side. It usually requires duplicating the sheets/ brace so that the spin is allowed to fly without polle while the pole is changed over. It is essential for large poles and spins on large racing boats.
End for ending is what I imagine will be appropriate for you. The spin pole must be symetrical at each end. The spin pole is removed from the mast and the base end is swung out to attach to the new brace. The other end is released from the old brace and brought in to attach on the mast. It takes a bit of manpower to handle a heavy pole and you use the topping lift to support some of the pole weight.

The best way to get into practice with a spin is to have a smaller one to start with and later use it for stronger winds. I have happily carried small spin in over 25 knots on my light weight 21 fter. But that is after 20 years learning how to manage it.
good luck don't be put off by the power of the blighter. remeber when you are over powered to stear down wind. (keep the boat under the spin) this despite the tendency to amke the boat round up to windward.... (spin ... the invention of the devil) olewill
 
Bollocks
Its an extendable spinnaker pole and it works fine with the downhaul in the middle as has every single pole that I've ever used for the past 40 years in all conditions from light to medium wind range which is the extent that spinnakers tend to get flown by cruising couples or short handed crews.
You seem to be talking about things that apply in the upper wind range when most cruising spinnakers have been doused.
 
That looks like the set-up for dip-pole gybing, you can grab the downhaul to pull the pole into the middle of the boat.

It won't work for end-for-end gybing, the downhaul (and uphaul) need to be central on the pole, usually on bridles.
 
Our downhaul is the end..... we have to dip gybe as the pole is not the same either end...

However, saying that, most cruisers won't be in the regular habit of gybing the kite.... and will probably only hoist it when a long leg on the same tack is possible...

I did fit a bridle, but found that it was less hassle to go straight to the end of the pole...

Second the point about taking the downhaul to the foredeck.... I normally do, but on one occasion just took it to the mast base, and was suprised at the reduced ability to keep the pole down....
 
If you don't want to put an eye in the foredeck (you'll probably need to reinforce the deck), we run a line between the forward cleats and tie a block to it. Then we run the downhaul line aft. Works fine.
 
Wow! Thanks for the help, really valuable. This is the first time I have used the forum, and everybody's assistance and enthusiasm is quite overwhelming. If anybody has any other tips keep them coming, and thanks to everybody.
 
[ QUOTE ]
dip-pole gybing

[/ QUOTE ] Apart from any constraits imposed by the design of the vessel or the rig what are the relative pros and cons of dip-pole gybing vs end for end gybing? Does a foreguy have any advantages over a sraightforward downhaul (apart from the fact that it can utilise the moorig cleat as an anchor point)?

What would you do if you had an inner forestay (or baby stay)?
 
Dip pole leaves the pole always attached to the boat a bit more firmly... an end for end can get a bit hairy on the foredeck when its blowing!... and therefore can be done by a smaller foredeck team...

Dip pole requires more helm skills, as the kite is free flying for longer

End for end can have a longer pole....

Dip poles tend to have more robust mast fixings... (marginal point though)
 
generally if you have a babystay then you'll be end for ending, or even if you have a dip pole, you'll be detaching it... (which is the case on my boat - although we rarely gybe the kite)

In my experience, end for ends are on smaller lighter boats, dip poles on bigger boats, and really big boats have two poles!
 
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