Spilling the wind with a cabin top mainsheet

It is nice to be able to "Play the main" ... I do this when I want to try and squeeze that last 0.5 knot out of her - as twister_K says though - probably better with a traveller! I'll settle for 0.3 of a knot then!
 
With my Jeanneau, you are going infinitely SLOWER if you are at the point of being gusted into rounding up. These boats need reefing early, which isn't manly, but it is a lot quicker. When you have made the reef, then you should have a considerably increased range of wind/gusting which the boat should cope with of course.

I also have the cabintop issue. One answer is to put a swivelling cam cleat between the clutch and the winch. Take the main off the winch with the cam cleat jammed, and lead it back to the helm. One quick flick will release the cam cleat and dump the main. I have seen it on a SO32, and I have one in the goodies box, just not got round to doing it, as I have to disassemble the heads and shower to get the ceiling panel down to fit it.
 
I was wondering why no one had mentioned travellers up to now..... I always go for my traveller before dumping the main...

As for knockdowns.... only ever the once.... and it did result in quite a bit of damage...including quite a bit of downflooding, lost batteries, 3 lost stanchions and frankly, utter chaos.... so agree... most 'knockdowns' reported by cruising folk are nothing of the sort!
 
Not all boats are so beautifully balanced.

re the reply that you just let go the helm and allow her to round up whilst you walk forward to ease the mainsheet,this would be a problem if you had an obstruction of some sort,buoy boat edge of channel or whatever to windward.

On some boats this will result in an involuntary going about with the resultant chaos of genoa backed people falling out of bunks etc etc.So its not all bad.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think the mainsheet position on Moondance is good.Its easilly reached and only the helmsman(who will be the one most aware if its likely) is vulnerable in a gybe.
 
Someone wrote: "And you should also ask why you're short handed in a boat which responds to a gust by rounding up out of control - a characteristic less of cruising vessels, more of racing vessels."

It's a characteristic of almost every current mass production boat, and most of them have the mainsheet well out of immediate reach of the helmsman. Once the boat heels more than say 15-20-25 degrees (depending on exact design) you rapidly lose control with the rudder and the boat rounds up - how violently depending on the design. With sheets left untouched in a squall this luff brings a sudden increase in apparent wind and more heeling force, so the boat is pinned down at an uncomfortable angle till you do something about it: ie let go one or both sheets.

This is simply a characteristic of most modern production boats. It's brought about by commercial pressures on the builders. It's easy to sell boats parked at a boat show that have wide transoms, big cockpits and spacious double aft cabins. It's cheaper to get the stability from beam and fit a relatively light keel. The result is boats that do not handle well in gusty conditions.

If someone had put a current Jen/Ben/Bav/etc up for a boat test by a decent magazine 30-ish years ago the design would have been totally condemned for poor handling. Instead magazine boat tests now PRAISE a design for only rounding up relatively gently. The idea that a boat might just carry on in the direction you wanted, but with more heel, when a big gust hits is lost to most current sailors. Some modern boats round up so violently they can tack themselves.

I now sail a modern production boat exactly like this - it's really nice to live aboard, it sails very well indeed in light to moderate and reasonably steady wind conditions, and in these conditions it can make surprisingly fast passages (I keep surprising myself). It will still get from A to B in strong winds if it has to, though it's not pleasant sailing, or vthat easy to handle. It also is pretty low maintenance, especially as all gear is near new. If it had a ton more ballast in the keel it would be a really lovely boat to sail, but the extra stresses would break it. More ballast would mean a stronger hull, which would need a slightly bigger rig, and allow it to be driven harder which would put more stress ...... and so on. Hence the compromises made at design and build level that keep the cost down.

My last cruising boat was the complete opposite - drop dead gorgeous, high maintenance due to all the external brightwork, plus old gear, narrow, high ballast ratio, seriously sluggish in light airs (and also woefully underpowered under engine), but give it the sort of breeze that had modern boats reefing or running home and she was lovely to sail.

You can get compromise boats, but not at the price Jen/Ben/Bav etc come out at. If I was able to spend 2 to 3 times the money I could have modern, still fairly spacious accommodation, but with good all-weather handling as well. Sweden Yachts/Najad etc

Back to what to do with a forward mainsheet when singlehanded and hit by a gust that knocks you down. Put the autopilot on (1 second), and clamber forward, past the wheel and across or up the over-wide cockpit, and let go first the mainsheet and then if needed the genoa as well. As she comes upright roll a bit or a lot more genoa in, and consider another reef in the main as well.

Alternatively, if you see the gust coming, and it looks to be short-lived, you can sometimes bear away hard and go to a near-run. This reduces apparent wind and heeling moment, and can keep you in control.
 
So much comes back to the hull shape and design. As you (John Wilson) say, the modern boats are built for volume/marina appeal and don't like to be over pressed.
Whe singlehanded, I rely on the autopilot quite a lot and position myself in front of the wheel so that I have access to all cockpit controls for trimming. My main is on the cabin top and yes, I would like to have it closer to the helming position but there isn't a way of achieving this without a major compromise or rebuild of the cockpit area. I do have a cabin top traveller however and the tail of the control line is long enough that I can operate it from the helm position and dump the main if needed. Thankfully my hull shape is quite balanced so the boat doesn't behave badly when over pressed.
The best explanation of hull design that I have read to understand this is in Mike Pococks book Inshore Offshore.
 
I was a bit concerned when we switched from our W33 centre cockpit boat with the mainsheet on the pedestal to our Jeanneau Sun Legende 41 which has a very powerful rig, tall mast and yet a coachroof mounted mainsheet/traveller. We needn't have worried! Firstly the boat is very well behaved and light on the helm, the quadrant mounted autopilot is one button instant 'on' even if it isn't already on and the boom angle created by having the mainsheet track forward on the coachroof is much much better. You have far more control over the main by leaving the mainsheet and kicker on and opening the sail barn door style by dropping the traveller. Admittedly we do have a high class Harken traveller system which has enough purchase to be used by hand without the (provided) 2-speed self tailers on the coachroof, but then she is a Jeanneau class act not a MAB. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif On our old Westerly 33 there was NO traveller but we did fit an Easymatic double acting mainsheet for extra control. and we had a rigid kicker that kept control when the mainsheet was dumped - and yes it did need it sometimes.

As a downside to the aft mounted mainsheet BTW, I once sailed a Westerly Sealord 39 back from Cherbourg to the Solent in a full SW8. The mainsheet was angled across my neck such that I felt an accidental gybe would mean instant decapitation, a bit severe as a cold cure! Contrary to my normal practice of using a lightish (weakest point principle) line we had a very heavy preventer line on the boom and had it winched tight! Even so I could be seen ducking and diving all the way back...

Over the years we have had or sailed with all the variations of mainsheet. Having a traveller in the cockpit on a cruising boat can be dangerous to crew coming up from below, especially to children's fingers, and it can take up a lot of cockpit space. Having it behind the helm on the boom end gives much less control (reduced dumping angle) as well as the tangle/decapitation factor. Having it on the coachroof clears the cockpit and allows a wider angle with the mainsheet still on but at the expense of being in immediate reach of a singlehanded helm, but no problem with a competent autopilot. What I would not like however is that contrived and friction packed arrangement that is fitted to some boats, like the Malos or Hunter Legends.
 
If I sail single handed I put a reef in the main before I go out, coffee doesn't spill and no undue excitement. He/she should learn to steer whilst to the side of the wheel so able to move in an emergency.

In the words of one of our forumites, "if I need excitement, I stand up quickly"
 
I do exactly this. The sheet it held in the self tail and then looped back the wrong way round the winch and back to me at the helm. The same is done for the genoa sheet

Very easy to dump both sheets from the high side if the need arises.

W
 
You may be able to adapt the system I use. With a cat it is of course vital that you can release the sheets in a hurry. I have self-tailing winches on my mainsheets so after adjusting, I take the sheet out of the self-tailer and back off to 2 turns or 3 in strong conditions, then put it into a large dinghy cam cleat. To release, a quick jerk upwards and the tension will make the sheet run off the winch.

If you don't have crew in the cockpit there would be no problem running the tail of the sheet over to a jammer by the wheel.
 
There is a difference between dumping a main or genny to avoid a situation in a gust to being able to sail, trim and control the boat short handed. With any sail trimming controls out of reach of the helm, short handed sailing will be compromised. You can sail short handed maybe but to keep control and the boat sailing efficiently you must be able to get to the controls. I mean you wouldn't drive a car with the clutch pedal on the passenger side would you.

This is the sort of setup I refer to:

mainsheet.jpg


Main sheet and primary winch are close to hand on my Etap 35i.
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between dumping a main or genny to avoid a situation in a gust to being able to sail, trim and control the boat short handed. With any sail trimming controls out of reach of the helm, short handed sailing will be compromised. You can sail short handed maybe but to keep control and the boat sailing efficiently you must be able to get to the controls. I mean you wouldn't drive a car with the clutch pedal on the passenger side would you.

This is the sort of setup I refer to:

mainsheet.jpg


Main sheet and primary winch are close to hand on my Etap 35i.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. With this sort of set up you can go sailing. With coachroof mainsheet you simply go boating with assistance of rags.
Of course what you prefer is up to you.
 
I will go boating with rags then, as your arrangement does not allow use of my cockpit table and would trip up SWMBO on the way to the stern platform.
It seems a pity that you sail a boat with only a main, perhaps you can afford a big boys boat with lots of sails later, eh!
 
Well we have a cockpit mounted traveller and a cockpit table. But like I said, the boat you choose is up to you!
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is what a boat is for....

[/ QUOTE ]

What only 2 boxes of beer with your breakfast?? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
So breakfast is over and the lady on the left is about to start dishing the beer out! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top