Spending other people's money?!

Yellow Ballad

Yellow Ballad

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I'm a boating on a shoe string sailor so I have to think about my purchases, but I've decided to save my pennies for a "big" upgrade and want your advice, I think I know what to do but thought I would open it up to discussion. There's lots I need/would like but these are the two big things I think would help more then a new generation anchor or electronic chart plotter.

I sail shorthanded, either solo or with inexperienced crew, my boat an Albin Ballad is very basic compared to most and is set up for round the cans club racing rather then my needs so there's lots to be done. She has hank on sails (which the No.1 and 4 are really good and kept on the boat, 2 and 3 are getting to the end of their lives and are rarely used). She also has a Navik windvane and an older Navico tillerpilot with a mind of it's own.

I'm torn between two things, either a decent tillerpilot or fitting roller furling. The navico is fine for motoring out of port to hoist the sails (when there's nobody to hold the tiller) but in any swell (Bristol Channel are my grounds) it's slow to react and sometimes goes hard over for some reason. I have a tiller tamer I could use, plus the windvane once sailing. The other thought is roller furling, although I really love the simplicity of hank on sails and being able to point a bit higher, keeping a suit of sails on a 30 footer isn't ideal (yes I know people do it in smaller), also having to go forward solo with a dodgy tiller pilot on a bouncy foredeck isn't my idea of fun and not having to fold sails at the end of a tiring day on your own would be a bonus, let alone changing them at sea.

I'm leaning towards a decent tillerpilot as if I can rely it'll point me the way I want it I can cope with going forward to do what I need to do. But being able to pull out a bit of genoa from the cockpit to get sailing also appeals.

Thoughts? An Ev-100 costs £1300, a ST-2000 £500 and roller furling with a new sail will be the best part of 2k. I could look for a used (knackered) furler and secondhand sail which might be £500 and buy a new ST-2000 to get the best of both worlds?

Also a tiller pillot like the ST-2000 vs the EV-100 with the tiller ram is it worth the extra? All I seem to read with the all in one units is premature failure and returns/replacements.

Many thanks in advance.
 
Having been in your position before...

My first purchase would be the headsail reefing/genoa. Second the tiller pilot.

With the reefing genoa you will spend far less time on the foredeck. With the tiller pilot you can spend far more time on the foredeck, if you want to...
 
langstonelayabout said:
Having been in your position before...

My first purchase would be the headsail reefing/genoa. Second the tiller pilot.

With the reefing genoa you will spend far less time on the foredeck. With the tiller pilot you can spend far more time on the foredeck, if you want to...
Click to expand...

+1. No brainier- get the roller fuller.
 
Having spent 4 years sailing single handed in a similar sized boat I would also go for the furler.
Less I had to go forward the better.
 
langstonelayabout said:
Having been in your position before...

My first purchase would be the headsail reefing/genoa. Second the tiller pilot.

With the reefing genoa you will spend far less time on the foredeck. With the tiller pilot you can spend far more time on the foredeck, if you want to...
Click to expand...

+1 definitely
 
Very disappointed with my Ev100 & actually worse than my ST2000. I am about to spend a couple of hundred £'s paying a Raymarine dealer to visit the boat on Wednesday to try & sort the problems with the autopilot & upgrade the software. So do not be fooled into buying one straight away.
If you go for the Furler make sure it is a decent one, not a carp one. Then if £'s are in short supply get the ST 2000 later on. Do not bother with the EV100
I have an Aeries which i use a lot & i am sure that your windvane will do a good job for much of the time especially if you spend a bit of time working with it to understand how best to use it
 
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My vote also goes to the headsail furler.
My Ufo 31 & your Ballad have similiar sized headsails. The thought of changing 350 square foot headsails in lively conditions is not appealing. Then what to do with all that soggy sail?
A roller headsail with a foam luff makes life much easier.
A tiller pilot is nice to have but ours doesn't get too much use.
 
Come on guys, you are going against the unwritten rules of the forum which say that posts asking for advice get contradictory answers and then go off at a tangent!
FWIW I would get a new fridge first and spend anything left over on a mainsail furling system!
(Not really, I agree with everyone else, get the furler!)
 
Dan Tribe said:
My vote also goes to the headsail furler.
My Ufo 31 & your Ballad have similiar sized headsails. The thought of changing 350 square foot headsails in lively conditions is not appealing. Then what to do with all that soggy sail?
A roller headsail with a foam luff makes life much easier.
A tiller pilot is nice to have but ours doesn't get too much use.
Click to expand...

But then one would assume that you do not sail singe handed very often & the OP sometimes does so an autopilot would be much farther up the scale of " necessities". That is his problem & steering whilst changing the headsail is not the only time he needs a reliable autopilot. There are many other times. ie getting fenders & lines out coming into harbour; dropping the mainsail, navigating, using the heads, going below to get something, there is an endless list & one cannot always just heave too to do these things.
But he does have an unreliable one, so hopefully that will last long enough for him to save some more pennies.
That can be dangerous though. Mine decided to flip 40 degrees, put me on a bank & i lost a rudder 600 miles from home.
As soon as one has an extra pair of hands, even inexperienced ones , the problem goes away. So how much solo sailing does he really intend to do? Only he knows the answer to that.

My last boat had 3 jibs & I tended to try & select a jib for the expected conditions. I was lucky the boat would sail fairly well on a course under main alone. It sometimes meant that I got rather wet though. With only 2 good sails the OP has a more limited choice, but a choice all the same. It depends how much he can rely on his windvane & existing autopilot.
The choice between furler & autopilot is not really quite as clear cut as it might seem at first
 
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Why not buy secondhand and get both.

Keep an eye on ebay, and register yourself for the "yachts and yachtie bits for sale" group on Facebook that Scala of this manor runs.
 
A Navik is capable of steering that boat in all conditions except a flat calm.
Learn to get the best from it and it will be a friend for life.
You only need an electronic pilot for motoring.
 
+1 on the furler. You already have a vane and a electronic pilot! I had an ST1000 on my Sabre, a similar sized boat, and that had nowhere near the ability of your setup but I always managed on my own. With a furler you can steer with your knee or similar for the few seconds it takes to change your sails anyway. Might also be worth adding that if you don't already have coachroof mainsail controls, do that. I picked up all the deck gear I needed second hand for peanuts so it needn't be expensive.

Essentially with absolutely everything apart from the genoa halyard led back (which only gets tensioned or relaxed at the beginning/end of the sail) I never needed to leave the cockpit and my a/p was pretty much only ever used under engine when steering was just boring.
 
+ another on the furler, and for the same reasons others have given.

If you single hand a lot, I'd also give serious consideration to bringing the reefing lines and main halyard back to the cockpit. The less you have to leave the cockpit the better in any conditions, the better, and when you need that second reef NOW, it really isn't the weather to be leaving the tiller to fend for itself while you take your life in your hands at the mast. It doesn't have to be expensive; admittedly Jissel's a good bit smaller than your boat, but I doubt I spent more than a couple of hundred pounds, and it transformed boat handling.
 
It's the furler for me as well. I would have it above almost anything except the wine box

The Ballad is more directionally stable than more extreme designs so you can get by with the steering gear you have.
Getting rid of sails below is a triumph on a small boat. With a furling sail you have back up power which can be switched on and powered up and down. in a flash. You can adjust and back the sail for close quarter control, creep onto a mooring, get rid of it, reel it down to improve forward vision, and adjust with precision for heaving to. With a large genoa rig, sailing without the main is a key bonus, you will find you can tool around jogging into the wind at any speed you desire, ideal when sailing on your own.

If your No 2 was in good order I would suggest you have had the luff sorted for furling, to save a bit of cash; it's unlikely that the No 1 would suit. Perhaps you could pick up a good used No 2 and modify that?
 
Hi Tom,
I have a tiller pilot tp10 which was cheap, and does the job when motoring in and out. The wind vane I find a bit dodgy once near land, you look down to tie a fender on, and look up to find you are off in a different direction.
I'm very happy to have a roller furling system, and it's great to just roll it away as you get close to home. I'm still not totally convinced with it though, and previously used to drop the genoa on the deck, and tie it to the guard wire. I still have no4, and 2 different storm jibs, plus 2 kites packed away. The lockers are big enough for more. I kind of have mixed feelings about it.
The tp10 is so cheap I would definately get one first.

Mike
 
Hi Tom,
I have a tiller pilot tp10 which was cheap, and does the job when motoring in and out. The wind vane I find a bit dodgy once near land, you look down to tie a fender on, and look up to find you are off in a different direction.
I'm very happy to have a roller furling system, and it's great to just roll it away as you get close to home. I'm still not totally convinced with it though, and previously used to drop the genoa on the deck, and tie it to the guard wire. I still have no4, and 2 different storm jibs, plus 2 kites packed away. The lockers are big enough for more. I kind of have mixed feelings about it.
The tp10 is so cheap I would definately get one first.

Mike
 
I would fit slides to the biggest genoa if that is in decent nick, buy a new budget furler and a s/h decent autopilot. I know some people are prejudiced against converting a hank on sail to slides for RR but I have done this a few times and the sails have set well and furled well also. You are more likely to get a quality autohelm s/h as these are things that peeps do upgrade. Good luck with your upgrades whatever you choose to do.
 
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