spelling and such

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binch

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Now that we are visiing England we find ourselves roped in to help grandchildren with homework.
Spelling.
How many ways are there of spelling your?
He got for himself YOUR, YOU'RE YORE. and I supplied YAW
One of the country's superbly trained schoolmistresses said "that isn't a word."
Young Louis argued as would any cocky little 7 y.o.
But to no avail.
Question: given that they live in a town that has been a seaport for centuries, what has happened to our nautical tradition when even teachers have such a limited vocabulary? I mean. he didn't talk about furling the frazzentossels or some other everyday nautical expression.
Likewise grand-daughter is asked to provide a safety slogan for the pope's visit. A safety slogan???!!!
My wife suggested "Crucifixion can seriously damage your health."
Well what would you say?
 
As a Scot, sir, I see and hear no relationship between " your and you're" and "yore( all right,it has got an "r" in it) and yaw. The teacher is not only ignorant of nautical terms, but also of basic pronunciation of words . In the STANDARD ENGLISH I was taught at school,such slovenly speech would not have been tolerated !

As regards a safety slogan for children during the Pope's visit,why not " 'ware priests!"
 
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binch said:
Now that we are visiing England we find ourselves
How many ways are there of spelling your?
He got for himself YOUR, YOU'RE YORE. and I supplied YAW
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A good job you were not in Scotland, where YAW and YORE are pronounced quite differently from each other and from YOUR/YOUR. Closer homophones might be EWER and URE (the river or the surname).


Edit: Must type faster (and the phone rang while I was composing the post).
 
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How many ways are there of spelling your?
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A trick question surely, as "your" is the only word spelt "your"......

You're, yore, yaw, (and even ewer and ure) are all spelt completely different. :D
 
Yaw is also used in aerodynamics and ballistics and appears in all basic dictionaries. I do despair at teachers, we hear that they are all dedicated and hard working, yet a significant number of mine were lazy, arrogant bullies which might have been the norm in the 60s and 70s but, I suspect, is still the case now. Why didn't the teacher say “right children, lets check our Concise Oxford English Dictionary!” and share his or her learning with the youngsters.

[/rant]
 
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:eek: Wrong Post ...

No was right first time .. A Priest can seriously damage your .... Well at the last count 3000 would have .. Could have and PROBABLY did have .. Something they sould not have had .. ( Shouldn't ) :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:
 
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Rustyknight said:
Perhaps it is in Scotland, but in the English speaking part of the British Isles it's spelt spelt...... :D
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You are correct, and I apologise. I was misled by my 1971 edition of the OED where the word did not appear (in that sense), although it did in my 1990 edition of the COD (which was in another room). Returning to the OED I did find "spelt" as an alternative past participle under the word "spell".

I can't help thinking, though, that these modern spellings may prove less sturdy than the traditional ones in the long run, particularly when conditions are difficult and reliability is all-important ....
 
binch said:
Young Louis argued as would any cocky little 7 y.o.
Click to expand...

I still remember a primary-school teacher telling me that I was wrong and infrared was just "very bright red" rather than "special light you can't see but special cameras can see in the dark using it".

And a few years later an English teacher crossing out "back the jib" in dialogue in a nautical story because the phrase was unfamiliar to him and so he assumed I was making it up.

Teachers, eh?

Pete
 
Ludd said:
As a Scot, sir, I see and hear no relationship between " your and you're" and "yore( all right,it has got an "r" in it) and yaw. The teacher is not only ignorant of nautical terms, but also of basic pronunciation of words . In the STANDARD ENGLISH I was taught at school,such slovenly speech would not have been tolerated !

As regards a safety slogan for children during the Pope's visit,why not " 'ware priests!"
Click to expand...


STANDARD ENGLISH? There's no such thing!
 
alan_d said:
But spelt, though pronounced "spelt" is spelled "spelled".
Click to expand...

431700b.jpg
 
I expect the teacher moved on to the next period. "Get out your droring materials children."

I've had arguments with teachers on all sorts of subjects. The most annoying was a middle aged teacher who couldn't understand the use of apostrophes.

I would write to the teacher pointing out her shortcomings.

OFSTED recently reported that almost half of the children who were classified as having Special Needs actually just needed a decent teacher.
 
Standard English

A most interesting discussion. I should have known better than to get myself complicated by the knickerless neighbours from the north. At least they do have an education system, or they used to.
Past participles being used as the past continuous is a current degradation. I have learnt and I learned.
The definitive English is hard. How far back do you go? Obviously the word comes from Anglish, and the Angles gave their word to both the country and the language.
But when you hear the old Anglish dialect you find the most extraordinary past participles that have existed there for centuries.
She'd a shruck. (She would have shrieked)
That a snew. (It has snowed)
And heath is pronounced to rhyme with death, breath etc. (hence heather)
And what can you make of 'I hint a bin a doing of it.' (Not guilty me lud)
Language is fun. It is also a tool of communication and its real test is effectiveness.
So do we suppress Welsh, Cornish, and the Gaelic? I think not, but perhaps we should no longer spend public money on encouraging them.
And the use of the word "do" defies analysis.
 
SPELT

alan_d said:
You are correct, and I apologise. I was misled by my 1971 edition of the OED where the word did not appear (in that sense), although it did in my 1990 edition of the COD (which was in another room). Returning to the OED I did find "spelt" as an alternative past participle under the word "spell".

I can't help thinking, though, that these modern spellings may prove less sturdy than the traditional ones in the long run, particularly when conditions are difficult and reliability is all-important ....
Click to expand...

SPELT
A species of wheat (Triticum spelta) giving very fine flour.
 
Another example where lots of mistakes are made: There, their, they're.

"STANDARD ENGLISH? There's no such thing!"

Right ; it's an evolutionary process. In fact so-called English is a melting pot of different languages each of which has had a more or less important influence.

A starting point may be the old Brythonic languages the traces of which may be seen in Welsh, Breton, Manx, Cornish and Gaelic. These were displaced in the indigenous population - to the west mainly - after the fall of the Roman Empire when the Angles, Saxons and Jutes arrived. Theirs were a mixture of differing dialects until the West Saxon language took prominence. With the Christianisation of the country, Latin and Greek elements were introduced followed by the Scandinavian Germanic influence of the Vikings forming what is now known as Old English. The earliest literary piece surviving from this epoque is 'Beowulf'. This would be incomprehensible today but it is still considered "English".

The next significant wave was the Norman Invasion the language of which evolved from Old Norse; a dialect of old French. This lasted for about three centuries by which time "Middle English" had evolved to that of Chaucer.

Between this period and that of Shakespeare and Milton – Early Modern English - there was a significant evolution of vowel sounds (“The Great Vowel Shift”).

The British Empire resulted in foreign words being introduced (such as 'bungalow' from India) until we arrive at the modern English of Dickens.

Since this time language has been influenced by journalese and technology. Changes were more a question of vocabulary rather than changes to structure. The biggest potential influence now is probably the introduction of Americanisms: e.g. a “custom” car means just the opposite of customary… but everybody is now using it.

On the other hand the French are trying to stem the tide of foreign influences by having the Académie Française define terms for modern technology. E.g. “ordinateur” for computer and “couriel” for e-mail. They even tried to make the use of foreign words illegal in business practice.


And the safety slogan : "Abolish celibacy"
 
Anglo-Saxon

I married into a family of linguisticians (!!!!!) and historians. (My background is mathematics, so I had nobody to talk to.)
One thing that interested me was the notion that the Angle immigrants and the Saxon immigrants settled in together, the Angles did the farming while the Saxons went round a-fighting. That is why in our history books you read a lot about the Saxons, because history as it was once taught, was just a list of kings and battles.
I think it was Trevelyan who wrote the first social history of Britain, but the book is on board together with all the others..
Of course the Kelts too were immigrants. They are believed to have originated in Bulgaria/Salonika, where they also wear kilts and play the bagpipes. There surely can't be two distinct anthropological entities that separately do anything so extra-ordinary. Can there?
Speaking of which, when we anchored for the night under the big red memorial to those who were slaughtered at Gallipoli, from the distance came the sound of a solitary piper playing a lament. One of the most moving experiences of my life
 
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