muskie
Active Member
I heard someone say reaching is the fastest but some other say it should be broad reach. Any comments?
Speed - Reaching vs Broad Reach
- Thread starter muskie
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jimi
Well-Known Member
Depends on the boat, sea state, sail plan, wind speed etc etc. On my boat a broad reach is faster than a reach in moderate to heavy winds.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
A broad reach becomes a reach as you go faster the apparent wind moves forward!
jimi
Well-Known Member
Interesting point! Do you define the point of sail on true or apparent wind? Pedantic point I know but I've always thought true, not that it really matters cos obviously you trim to apparent
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Just checked RYA booklet competent crew and on points of sailing the indicate wind from all directions (including in front!) so one assumes actual real wind direction - it dopes not specify which. Further on it shows sailing diagrams with position of the sails indicated and it has a windex position inserted in each diagram therefpre indication apparent wind!
I find broad reaching with apparent wind normally fastest as you also end up surfing down the waves but obviously depends on size of waves as if boat hits back of wave in front and becomes a submarine a) its not fast and strictly speaking you are no longer sailing!
I find broad reaching with apparent wind normally fastest as you also end up surfing down the waves but obviously depends on size of waves as if boat hits back of wave in front and becomes a submarine a) its not fast and strictly speaking you are no longer sailing!
LeonF
Well-Known Member
What is your boat Muppet?? Interested to know as I have a canoe sterned Victoria...like a Frances 26 if you don't know the boat. Absolutely hopeless dead downwind !! I broad reach too. It is a cutter rig and I have been advised to drop the stay sail and sail on a reefed main and yankee .... haven't tried it yet.
jimi
Well-Known Member
I've got a Beneteau 331, modern flattish hulled, wide sterned modern boat. She goes well ded down wind but I'm sure the faste point is a broad reach with the cruising chute flying. Dead down wind the sails are less efective becuase basically the boat is just getting blown along rather than the sails acting aerodinamically. On a reach in flat water I'm Ok but in a lot of chop the waves tend to slow progress.
Gin
Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, as I expect life will always find an exception, broad reaching the fastest. Less lateral resistance from keel(s) and rudder and greater area of sail presented to the forward making component of the mechanical advantage of the wind
Had to edit- this is said on the assumption that you can hold on to your course in the prevailing conditions as this point of sail can be hairy, especially in a quartering sea with the tiller gone light- sudden helm movements can cause a broach
Had to edit- this is said on the assumption that you can hold on to your course in the prevailing conditions as this point of sail can be hairy, especially in a quartering sea with the tiller gone light- sudden helm movements can cause a broach
jimi
Well-Known Member
Polars - Reaching vs Broad Reach
I'd be very interested if there is a site where the polars of various boats are published. Does anyone know of anything like that?
I'd be very interested if there is a site where the polars of various boats are published. Does anyone know of anything like that?
William_H
Well-Known Member
Re: Polars - Reaching vs Broad Reach
In really strong winds I would suggest for a displacement type keel boat that running is the fastest point of sail especially with a spinnacker up and if you have the nerve. For lighter winds a broad reach which becomes a reach because of apparent wind is faster than running especially if the low wind speed means you are under hull speed. olewill
In really strong winds I would suggest for a displacement type keel boat that running is the fastest point of sail especially with a spinnacker up and if you have the nerve. For lighter winds a broad reach which becomes a reach because of apparent wind is faster than running especially if the low wind speed means you are under hull speed. olewill
reginaldon
Well-Known Member
Re: Polars - Reaching vs Broad Reach
Especially in a dinghy on the plane. Once came came back up from Dungeness goosewinged with a wake like an MTB when hit by a front, from dead calm to a 6 in minutes.
Especially in a dinghy on the plane. Once came came back up from Dungeness goosewinged with a wake like an MTB when hit by a front, from dead calm to a 6 in minutes.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
I rather suspect
It depends on the boat, the sailplan being one factor, the hull shape the other.
On most modern high-speed displacement boats (if you look at their polars) it's a close reach.
However there is a considerable wind shift involved and, whilst apparent wind is just forward of the beam, true wind is 30-35 degrees aft.
Certainly the worst point of sailing on a fore-aft rigged boat is on a run and again (looking at polars) there is a rapid deterioration in performance with apparent wind 140-220 degrees to course.
Certainly my boat has reached her highest continuous hull speed on a (just) close reach.
It depends on the boat, the sailplan being one factor, the hull shape the other.
On most modern high-speed displacement boats (if you look at their polars) it's a close reach.
However there is a considerable wind shift involved and, whilst apparent wind is just forward of the beam, true wind is 30-35 degrees aft.
Certainly the worst point of sailing on a fore-aft rigged boat is on a run and again (looking at polars) there is a rapid deterioration in performance with apparent wind 140-220 degrees to course.
Certainly my boat has reached her highest continuous hull speed on a (just) close reach.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Re: I rather suspect
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on the boat, the sailplan being one factor, the hull shape the other.
On most modern high-speed displacement boats (if you look at their polars) it's a close reach....
[/ QUOTE ]
To back that up: This one has its best speed with a true wind angle of 140° while this is fastest at 70° true wind. Notice the effect of different sail combinations in the first case.
If you're unfamiliar with polar diagrams, the speed for a given wind angle is represented by the distance along the spokes from the hub. The different graphs represent different wind speeds.
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on the boat, the sailplan being one factor, the hull shape the other.
On most modern high-speed displacement boats (if you look at their polars) it's a close reach....
[/ QUOTE ]
To back that up: This one has its best speed with a true wind angle of 140° while this is fastest at 70° true wind. Notice the effect of different sail combinations in the first case.
If you're unfamiliar with polar diagrams, the speed for a given wind angle is represented by the distance along the spokes from the hub. The different graphs represent different wind speeds.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
If you are using your sails as "barn doors" ie the wind is just pushing you from behind or near behind, then you cant go any faster than the wind. But on a reach some boats (eg fast multis in particular) can create enough boat speed to bring the wind forward and have a flow over the sails. They are to some extent creating their own wind and can therefore sail significantly faster.
Mind you this makes d** all difference to the clunkers that most of us sail on here. The difference between (say) 5 knots on a broad reach and 6 on a close reach is hardly exciting. On a friends lightweight Tri it becomes the difference between 5 knots and 15.
Mind you this makes d** all difference to the clunkers that most of us sail on here. The difference between (say) 5 knots on a broad reach and 6 on a close reach is hardly exciting. On a friends lightweight Tri it becomes the difference between 5 knots and 15.
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Re: Polars - Reaching vs Broad Reach
They were on beneteau-owners.com but this site seems to have gone down. It has resurrected itself once after a long period so might be worth trying from time to time. For the First 305 a broad reach was faster than a beam - on a beam reach the boat slowed when you put the spinny up, even though it will fly steadily.
Andy
They were on beneteau-owners.com but this site seems to have gone down. It has resurrected itself once after a long period so might be worth trying from time to time. For the First 305 a broad reach was faster than a beam - on a beam reach the boat slowed when you put the spinny up, even though it will fly steadily.
Andy
