Speed limit in Chi Harbour 8 knots for everyone?

[Seajet]

Daka,

let's not spoil what seems to have become a sensible discussion; A, if you know sailing boats as well as you say, you should not be surprised when they tack.

Having said that, I have always felt that while 'power gives way to sail' is largely nonsense, 'Vessel constrained by draught' certainly applies !

B, as for going offshore for races, in most of these dinghies this is a non-starter, they just cannot handle waves, - some because of the design, such as the Fireball - and others because the crews aren't used to such conditions; also remember that a widespread fleet out offshore in waves will make life extremely difficult for rescue boats to spot people in bother !

Your suggestion of banning dinghies above F4 is so daft I assume this is just a wind-up; the right dinghy in the right hands, as it will have the control authority and self draining qualities power boats - including RIB's - can only dream of - can handle rather stiffer weather...

I would love to take you for a spin in a Scorpion ( fairly fast, not too demanding on crew, very seaworthy ) for instance; I surfed mine a few times in the breakers on the East Winner, didn't see many power boats while at it !

 

[flaming]

I am going to be bold and state that NO ONE is safe in that boat in chichester harbour in a F5 and above, it should be the clubs responsibility to stop them launching in such conditions and even in F2-4 make sure they are back in before the afternoon sea breeze kicks in.

And everyone was playing so nicely!

Why do you always resort to such obviously inflamitory rubbish?

 

[DAKA]

Daka,

let's not spoil what seems to have become a sensible discussion; A, if you know sailing boats as well as you say, you should not be surprised when they tack.

Having said that, I have always felt that while 'power gives way to sail' is largely nonsense, 'Vessel constrained by draught' certainly applies !

Again we are in agreement
I was about to post to say I was withdrawing deliberately to leave the knowledgeable posters space, I have a lot of respect for flamming.

With regards to the unpredictable tacking , you really need to see it to believe it !

last incident

Race set across the channel, forcing all mobos in close proximity.
I allowed the fleet to pass infront of me.
a straggler loosing decided to leave the fleet and tack back into the channel in front of me.

I'll leave you both to agree with each other as requested.

 

[DAKA]

And everyone was playing so nicely!

Why do you always resort to such obviously inflamitory rubbish?

And who has spoilt it now

I am trying to leave you guys to it but come on...........

jet skis arent allowed to bomb about at 20 mph in the harbour, as it isnt safe.

I cant think of a single sailing boat that has greater control than a jet ski , surely you arnt suggesting a sailing boat @ 20 mph in a busy harbour is safe

OK, thread is all yours.
Ive completed my contribution and I will not return unless you specifically challenge any of my comments for further explanation.

 

[flaming]

I cant think of a single sailing boat that has greater control than a jet ski , surely you arnt suggesting a sailing boat @ 20 mph in a busy harbour is safe

I can't think of one that has less control. And the point is that I've never ridden a PWC, yet if I got on one and opened the throttle, I could make it go just as quick as someone who's been riding them for years. And inexperienced people doing this is a large part of why there are speed limits for powered craft.

Not something that applies to dinghies, as to get to those speeds requires you to put in the time to get good enough.

So yes, I am suggesting that racing dinghies in Chichester harbour is pretty safe TO OTHER USERS.

Dinghies are like motorbikes on a motorway. Zip in an out, don't necessarily obey the same rules as others, but if they stuff it up it's largely them that comes off worse. The same cannot be said of PWCs and sportsboats.

 

[Talulah]

So yes, I am suggesting that racing dinghies in Chichester harbour is pretty safe TO OTHER USERS.

I can see where you are coming from but the 'need for speed' and the totesterone levels in a race means that risks are taken with the public. I've seen this first hand especially in the popular anchorages and even more so on a hot summers day together with sounds of "but we're racing."
I think local clubs should set those areas as 'out of bounds' as it is 'an accident waiting to happen'.

 

[Seajet]

I think local clubs should set those areas as 'out of bounds' as it is 'an accident waiting to happen'.

Spiffing, I agree.

Now tell the speedboats and PWC berks who can't even spell 'consideration' the same terms !

 

[yesod]

]Now tell the speedboats and PWC berks who can't even spell 'consideration' the same terms !

why do you resort to such playschool name calling? you did it in the seahorses threads too, i recall

 

[Talulah]

I think local clubs should set those areas as 'out of bounds' as it is 'an accident waiting to happen'.

Spiffing, I agree.

Now tell the speedboats and PWC berks who can't even spell 'consideration' the same terms !

Not to say it hasn't happened but I've not seen any 'near misses' with the speedboats and PWC in the areas I'm refering to. Everyone knows that on a hot day they'll either be in the Ships Inn or on the beach with a bevvie and barbecue.

 

[Seajet]

Talulah,

on a further point I can say from being near the pointy end of sailing projectiles, and the blunt end too, that they will not normally venture among anchored boats as this would severely scupper any wind angle advantage, even considering tides.

Which ' common anchorages ' did you see this at ?

East Head in Chichester Harbour for instance would be a downright, race losing pain ( if disregarding the seamanship and consideration issues ) for a racing dinghy to get amongst, I've literally been there, avoided doing that; I suspect a bit of envy and hype is entering the equation here, " I wish those highly coloured gits wouldn't go past ( not among us ) displaying skills I don't have " !

It's beginning to look like there is a good case for a base offering experience in sailing and motor boats for all concerned, ( those who didn't attend could get knotted if attempting to complain on these forums ! ) - bags me in as a sailing instructor, did this a long time ago; but please don't let anyone talk of 'compulsory', for reasons stated before on this thread.

 

[Talulah]

Talulah,
Which ' common anchorages ' did you see this at ?
East Head in Chichester Harbour for instance would be a downright, race losing pain ( if disregarding the seamanship and consideration issues ) for a racing dinghy to get amongst, I've literally been there, avoided doing that; I suspect a bit of envy and hype is entering the equation here, " I wish those highly coloured gits wouldn't go past ( not among us ) displaying skills I don't have " !

I'm specifically refering to East Head. Not a case of 'envy' at all but 'disbelief' in what I was seeing. Kids/dogs swimming between boat and shore with boats in 'very' near misses. I'll try and capture some video this summer.
Whilst PWC and motor boats might be 'discourteous' I've not seen anything dangerous.

 

[Seajet]

Yesod,

'berk' is a highly technical term for idiots; I wonder why it rang your bell ?!

I'm happy to converse here with sensible people, I think we sail and power people may be getting somewhere; I would love to demonstrate the thrill of planing a dinghy in good conditions, it has to be experienced to be understood...

I had a Dart 18 sailing catamaran dinghy racer a while back; it went very fast, but the 'feedback' via the tiller and to the crew was almost lifeless, it was like pointing a machine - which is why people like me enjoy good racing dinghies so much, one can feel every slightest input from wave or helm, I'm talking of millimetres.

Funnily enough the sailing boats which I suspect are the ones being objected to here - International 14's ? Sail logo 14 have the handling qualities of a tea trolley with a rocket engine strapped on !

Like a lot of high performance cars, boats or aeroplanes, spiffing if someone else owns and runs them, and the world would be a much poorer place without them, but I'll stick with what I have found from experience works best in the long term.

Alex Henshaw, the great Spitfire Test Pilot, wrote a book 'Sigh for a Merlin ' ; I cannot pretend to any such heights of course, but I sigh for an Osprey Mk II and a willing ( preferably hot tottie ) crew, if I were to win the lottery and have a fleet of boats; it may be a surprise to you mobo's, but a Fairey Swordfish or Huntsman would be among that imaginary fleet.

 

[ricky_s]

Getting back to my original post.

Is the limit now 8 knots for ALL craft, regardless of wind or power?

 

[Searush]

Getting back to my original post.

Is the limit now 8 knots for ALL craft, regardless of wind or power?

In theory, yes; in practice, not really!

So if you feel the need to speed illegally, you'll have to learn to sail a flying machine.

Does that help?

 

[benjenbav]

Getting back to my original post.

Is the limit now 8 knots for ALL craft, regardless of wind or power?

Boring answer:

LTNM 2/00 Chichester Harbour - Speed of Vessels "Attention is drawn to the speed limit of 8 knots which is in force for the whole of Chichester Harbour..."

does not mean that bye-law 5

"The master of any power-driven vessel shall not, subject to the requirements of maintaining adequate steerage way and control, suffer or cause her to be navigated or driven in the harbour at a speed exceeding eight knots through, on or over the water, unless the consent in writing of the Harbourmaster has previously been obtained..."

applies to other than power-driven vessels.

imho

 

[Searider]

All dinghy sailors should have rule 17 tattoed on their foreheads.

Even sea creatures don't like em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh2iDfHiDdY

 

[benjenbav]

All dinghy sailors should have rule 17 tattoed on their foreheads.

Wouldn't they have to use a mirror to read it and then they'd get it all back to front.

 

[Tom Price]

Chichester speed limit?

The first person OP should ask is the (Acting) HM himself, tho' he really isn't the ultimate authority. I've attended Federation Meetings (reps from every club in the Harbour) when one establishment wanted to introduce a new class; after much debate because of size and speed they approved. No HM would go against that vote!

In the Tightwad Sailor 'Out to Lunch' vignettes you'll find references to several close encounters in Chichester Harbour resulting from ignorance of Col Regs. "Power gives way to sail" is the prime example, for it's NOT true in a restricted channel nor, most important, when overtaking.
Racing dinghies choose to ignore that, small MoBo's don't understand it, and as for canoeists, board-sailors and kite-surfers . . . .

Until boat owners of every type pass a test before being licenced to go afloat, this situation will only get worse for numbers are increasing. I'm sorry, the policy of Educate not Legislate has failed.

So it would seem that those of you who can control your speed are restricted to 8 knots in Chichester Harbour.
Has anyone asked the RYA about International Moths whose speed record is 30 knots?

Here's a reminder:
Outside Chichester (ie from Eastoke Beacon) there is a 10-knot speed limit until beyond the West Pole tripod, extending West at MLW Springs until the jurisdiction of Portsmouth QHM off Langstone Entrance; there the speed limit of 10 knots continues to Cowes where the restriction becomes 6 knots.

Hardly worth owning a big MoBo . . .

 

[benjenbav]

.

Outside Chichester (ie from Eastoke Beacon) there is a 10-knot speed limit until beyond the West Pole tripod, extending West at MLW Springs until the jurisdiction of Portsmouth QHM off Langstone Entrance; there the speed limit of 10 knots continues to Cowes where the restriction becomes 6 knots.

Hardly worth owning a big MoBo . . .

Now, now Tom: you know very well that QHM's speed limit of 10 knots applies, "within 0.5 nautical miles of the line of mean low-water springs in any part of the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth"

 

[Tom Price]

Speeding?

Wrong - QHM specifies anywhere within 1000 yards of the shore.

Apologies, not wrong - never trust Google but check original source!

Did YOU know that it applies along the Hayling seafront ?