Specifying an Electrical System For a New Boat (In 1999)

[Neeves]

Don't judge other boats by how you use your own.

This forum, or part of the forum, is for Boat Owners that are Practical.

I doubt there are many who regularly contribute here with monster on board, built in gen sets and combination fan ovens/microwaves + + +

I don't judge others by how they use their boats - nor do I expect owners of the boats you describe to be regular contributors to these threads.

I fully accept the you are cognisant of such owners and those same owners being exceptions here (in fact being non existent) are simply not part of my consciousness - I expect them, if they want advice, to be on the MoBo section (or simply open their wallets)

There is no need for you to critically suggest that I judge those MoBo owners as using there vessels as I use mine - they do not live here, they have better places for advice.

I find your contribution on technical matters interesting (seeing how they other half live) but I'd welcome your acknowledgement that some of us don't know, nor care of some of your clientele.

Jonathan

 

[PaulRainbow]

This forum, or part of the forum, is for Boat Owners that are Practical.

I doubt there are many who regularly contribute here with monster on board, built in gen sets and combination fan ovens/microwaves + + +

I don't judge others by how they use their boats - nor do I expect owners of the boats you describe to be regular contributors to these threads.

I fully accept the you are cognisant of such owners and those same owners being exceptions here (in fact being non existent) are simply not part of my consciousness - I expect them, if they want advice, to be on the MoBo section (or simply open their wallets)

There is no need for you to critically suggest that I judge those MoBo owners as using there vessels as I use mine - they do not live here, they have better places for advice.

I find your contribution on technical matters interesting (seeing how they other half live) but I'd welcome your acknowledgement that some of us don't know, nor care of some of your clientele.

Jonathan

This thread was about how a boats electrical systems were incorrectly specified when the boat was built, 22 years ago and how it took those 22 years for those errors to come to light. You've distorted it into something completely different. From post #7:

We have an inverter/charger but we would never use the batteries to boil a kettle, nor use a toaster nor the microwave. If you use these devices your battery drain is huge (and the power used takes a long time to replace).

We carry an electric kettle, toaster and microwave - which we use for the occasional time we are in marina or in a yard (say for antifouling). The rest of the time we use a kettle on the stove top, gas grill for the toast and a steamer instead of a microwave. But we can accept and are wired for shore power.

It's nothing to do with how you use your boat and how you think others should use theirs. This isn't one of your anchor threads Jonathan. As i said, it's about the incorrect electrical design/installation.

FYI the boat in question isn't a giant mega money gin palace, it's a medium sized, moderately priced 22 year old mobo. The owners also have a similarly electrically equipped sailboat. There are many people posting on this forum who have large inverters on their sailboats and use them to cook, heat water or run water makers from electricity.

 

[TernVI]

When the new owner viewed the boat the inverteer wasn't working. This was reported back to the seller, who said "just a fuse, i've fixed it".

If you don't want to use equipment that consumes 2500W of AC power you fit a smaller inverter, surely ? A 160A fuse on a 12V system would be about right for a 1500W inverter. If you fit a 2500W inverter you fit a 300A fuse (on a 12V system), the fuse protects the wiring, the inverter will shut down if you overload it (decent inverter).
.....

It's often the case that things like power supplies and inverters are much more reliable if run well below their 'notional' rating.
Particularly if run for extended periods.
This was probably even more the case 20 years ago when inverters were a bit less efficient.
The military design types go mad with this, insisting on 'derating' stuff .
If the inverter gave service for 20 years, I'm not going to say the original owner was wrong to have a unit where he could only use half the rated power, if that met his needs. The undersize fuse would also survive inrush current if the inverter was used with certain loads which might make a smaller unit decline to start.
If you are running anything with a motor in it, it's often wise to up-size the inverter.

 

[Neeves]

Paul

You implied the original owner had not identified an incorrectly sized fuse - that you cleverly identified. Suggesting you knew your stuff and you found it odd the original owner had not found what you found soooo quickly.

Tern VI offers a very sensible comment.

You are not running a business are you? this is surely not a subtle form of advertising?

You suggest

" There are many people posting on this forum who have large inverters on their sailboats and use them to cook, heat water or run water makers from electricity."

I doubt the many.

I doubt there are many who 100% cook using AC electrical power. Most production yachts are standard 12v with gas stoves. To have an electric hob demands a custom AC power circuit, a custom stove, and an inverter. Most people buy 'off the shelf' yachts from Benny/Jenny and Bav + + or second hand equivalents . If you don't buy new you are not going to rip the gas stove out and replace with an electric hob and inverter. Most people heat their water using an engine driven heat exchanger (with an AC immersion heater they use in marina run off shore power), To have large invertor demands a large battery bank and a large battery bank demands a large yacht (or in terms of sailing performance - a real dog). The number of owners with custom yachts is not 'many' the number of posts on electric hobs are not 'many' the number of posts with large invertors is not 'many'

Very few people have desal units.

Maybe your customer base has all of these items - but the majority, or many, here - I doubt it.

However as I have said I've lost touch with the UK market and maybe the pagoda trees are thriving (but again I doubt it).

Jonathan

edit

I had a quick scan of yachts for sale with brokers in the UK with electric hobs - yes they exist - but they are large. I have not found any for sale, yet, currently from Benny, Jenny and Bav - and if there were many - surely I would find at least few say 40' with the required kit, electric hob, big inverter and a large battery bank. Please point me in the right direction to support your suggestion there are 'many'.

pub seems to support your idea - maybe he can confirm your view with broker detail

Show us the data

close edit

 

[ICTM]

I take it that as far as you’re concerned we are not welcome then ? I have a mobo, with a gen set and to try and keep the running costs slightly the right side of insane I regularly come to this part of the forum to read the advice generously given by people such as PaulRainbow - thank you !

If it’s OK with you I will continue to do so ?

This forum, or part of the forum, is for Boat Owners that are Practical.

I doubt there are many who regularly contribute here with monster on board, built in gen sets and combination fan ovens/microwaves + + +

I don't judge others by how they use their boats - nor do I expect owners of the boats you describe to be regular contributors to these threads.

I fully accept the you are cognisant of such owners and those same owners being exceptions here (in fact being non existent) are simply not part of my consciousness - I expect them, if they want advice, to be on the MoBo section (or simply open their wallets)

There is no need for you to critically suggest that I judge those MoBo owners as using there vessels as I use mine - they do not live here, they have better places for advice.

I find your contribution on technical matters interesting (seeing how they other half live) but I'd welcome your acknowledgement that some of us don't know, nor care of some of your clientele.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I take it that as far as you’re concerned we are not welcome then ? I have a mobo, with a gen set and to try and keep the running costs slightly the right side of insane I regularly come to this part of the forum to read the advice generously given by people such as PaulRainbow - thank you !

If it’s OK with you I will continue to do so ?

Of course I welcome anyone who spend time on the water. Why you should feel I personally would not welcome your contribution I don't know. I have said that I have found Paul's posts of interest and educational, why would anything you say be different.

Now if you have an all electric MoBo, electric hob, big gen set, large battery bank, heat water using AC power, exclusively via your inverter etc - it would be interesting to know. It would certainly make a change from the regular queries about 20hp Volvo engines and which 60amphr starter battery to choose.

Be my guest.

Paul has said - and if he has said it - then it must be correct - there are many like you on this part of the forum - its a pity we don't know more about 'you' as we would learn from you, not only learn from Paul. There is nothing like hands on experiences to add real data and allow us the make better decisions.

I note ITCM you make about 1 post a month - it seems you are not sharing much of you knowledge - I for one would welcome your input.

Take care, stay safe.

Jonathan

 

[PaulRainbow]

It's often the case that things like power supplies and inverters are much more reliable if run well below their 'notional' rating.
Particularly if run for extended periods.
This was probably even more the case 20 years ago when inverters were a bit less efficient.
The military design types go mad with this, insisting on 'derating' stuff .
If the inverter gave service for 20 years, I'm not going to say the original owner was wrong to have a unit where he could only use half the rated power, if that met his needs. The undersize fuse would also survive inrush current if the inverter was used with certain loads which might make a smaller unit decline to start.
If you are running anything with a motor in it, it's often wise to up-size the inverter.

Totally ignoring the fact the specification sheet says it's for a 24v system and the boat is 12v, all of the fuses are under rated.

The inverter is rated at a continuous 2500W, peak 5000W, the inverter can easily cope with inrush current on its own. The inverter is a Mastervolt, not some cheap Ebay rubbish, it'll run at 2500W all day long.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul

You implied the original owner had not identified an incorrectly sized fuse - that you cleverly identified. Suggesting you knew your stuff and you found it odd the original owner had not found what you found soooo quickly.

Tern VI offers a very sensible comment.

You are not running a business are you? this is surely not a subtle form of advertising?

You suggest

" There are many people posting on this forum who have large inverters on their sailboats and use them to cook, heat water or run water makers from electricity."

I doubt the many.

I doubt there are many who 100% cook using AC electrical power. Most production yachts are standard 12v with gas stoves. To have an electric hob demands a custom AC power circuit, a custom stove, and an inverter. Most people buy 'off the shelf' yachts from Benny/Jenny and Bav + + or second hand equivalents . If you don't buy new you are not going to rip the gas stove out and replace with an electric hob and inverter. Most people heat their water using an engine driven heat exchanger (with an AC immersion heater they use in marina run off shore power), To have large invertor demands a large battery bank and a large battery bank demands a large yacht (or in terms of sailing performance - a real dog). The number of owners with custom yachts is not 'many' the number of posts on electric hobs are not 'many' the number of posts with large invertors is not 'many'

Very few people have desal units.

Maybe your customer base has all of these items - but the majority, or many, here - I doubt it.

However as I have said I've lost touch with the UK market and maybe the pagoda trees are thriving (but again I doubt it).

Jonathan

edit

I had a quick scan of yachts for sale with brokers in the UK with electric hobs - yes they exist - but they are large. I have not found any for sale, yet, currently from Benny, Jenny and Bav - and if there were many - surely I would find at least few say 40' with the required kit, electric hob, big inverter and a large battery bank. Please point me in the right direction to support your suggestion there are 'many'.

pub seems to support your idea - maybe he can confirm your view with broker detail

Show us the data

close edit

Plenty on here that have stated the run watermakers or heat water from inverters, as well as using induction hobs or microwaves, batteries charged by solar.

Plenty of boat owners who don't post here and plenty more who read, without making many posts.

A friend of mine is currently fitting a 3500W inverter, double induction hob, electric kettle, microwave etc to a 30 year old 36ft sail boat, he isn't alone.

The rest of your post is obnoxious drivel, not worthy of a reply.

Just because you don't do something, doesn't mean it isn't done.

 

[lustyd]

Dylan Winter KTL reckoned all you need are four candles
And a box of waterproof matches I suppose

He also thought Fray Bentos pies were food so take his ramblings with a pinch of salt!

 

[Neeves]

I'm sorry Paul I mistakenly thought some of your posts, specifically this one might be construed to be spam. I obviously made a terrible judgement call but it was on that basis I commented.

You are obviously a sincere and honest individual with only the best interests of forum members as your focus - so of course you would find my comments obnoxious.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Bilgediver]

Oddly, the cables are OK for 12V.

That is unusual for the continent. I am surprised how often in the domestic setting they get away with so much less copper than we are used to. Not only in the wiring but plug pin size etc. In America where 110 volts their scantlings are even less!!!!!!!