Special Ensign

[Guest]

I bought my yacht last year and it came with a special ensign (red with a yacht clubs badge embroidered on it).

How serious is the "offence" to fly it?

Will it just annoy the G and T crowd, or are there any more serious consequences?

Regards

Sean

 

[DoctorD]

From an etiquette point of view - very serious. Having said that no-one is going to come after you. People will just assume you are a member of whatever club is indicated.

Also when a special ensign is flown, the burgee of that club must also be flown at the masthead or starboard crosstrees.

It would be best to fly a normal Red Ensign, but like I said there is no sanction.

Graham

 

[AndrewB]

The fine for wearing an ensign to which you aren't entitled is (I think) £1,000.

There are very few yacht clubs with a defaced red ensign; the Royal Victoria, IOW is one. Possibly it belongs to some organisation like Trinity House.

So long as you don't try it with a white ensign, in practice the only people likely to be put out by your flying a privileged ensign are members of the yacht club to which it belongs.

 

[Viking]

Obvously it can be a bit embarrassing to met someone from that club!

 

[paulineb]

HRH

Have invited Her Maj on board for a drink as part of her Golden Jubilee celebrations. If she accepts, do I fly the Royal Standard, the White Ensign or what ??

Pxx

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: HRH

Whatever you like. I understand She is a great fan of the Sex Pistols who have recently re-released one of their songs in Her honour.

How thoughtful of them. Isn't that a nice thing to do!

 

[ianwright]

Well you could...

You might get pointed out as a bit of a prat, but as long as you wear a Regimental tie that you're not supposed to and a Yachtin' cap with RYS badge and white summer cover they might put it down to excentricity and just avoid you in pubs. West Mersea is it?

IanW.

Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Guest]

I Don't intend to fly the special ensign, just interested in the comments raised.
Anyone need a Royal Victoria defaced red ensign?!

 

[boatone]

Re: HRH

Shouldnt hold your breath waiting for an acceptance Pauline.........although if by some strange perverse quirk of fate they were to acccept I suspect you might get on quite well with the Duke...........<VBG>

As for which flag to fly..I'm sure the etiquette guys at Buck House will advise you if the need arises.

TonyR
boatone@boatsontheweb.com
www.boatsonthethames.co.uk

 

[Guest]

Yes, defaced reds are rare. The Royal Norfolk and Suffolk oka Royal Nobs and Snobs (founded about 1850 is one such, and the story of how they got it is interesting.

Originally they used a white ensign but without the red st George cross. This was OK until the passing of the Merchant Shipping Act 1897 which laid down rules. The Admiralty which had to regularise all the different ensigns, offered the RNSYC the undefaced blue as a very "senior" (meaning old-established) club. The members looked at the other clubs being offered a blue and decided they did not wish to be associated with oiks like that and declined and announced that notwithstanding the act of parliament they were going to go on flying the same ensign as before. The letter saying this was signed by the Lords Lieutenant of the two counties.

This was diffilcult. It would have been embarrassing to send them to jail. The then Prince of Wales was the club patron and he regularly used the club to entertain. ( he used to drive over from Sandringham and meet a couple of chorus girls for the weekend). The problem was put to him.

Eventually he told the club they had to behave themselves, and as they still would not accept the blue and were prepared to have the red, he offered them his own personal badge to put on the red.

When I was a young Lieutenant R.N. in the fifties, I was often sent over to yachts flying a special ensign to check the warrant permitting them to do so. But there were not that many yachts about then. It wuld be impossible to enforce nowadays.

Personally, I believe the system should be scrapped. Commercial ships should use the red duster, which they deserve as an honour, and all pleasure craft should use the blue.

William Cooper

 

[Guest]

An interesting idea, but I can see difficulties already. I don't need to guess at the reaction from those few clubs (eg The Royal Western Yacht Club of England) who are entitled to a defaced blue ensign now. And where would you draw the line between "pleasure" and "commercial"? What would school yachts, charter vessels, commercial dive tenders, indeed any coded Small Commercial Vessel count as?

It is interesting to note that in the days of the RN having 3 squadrons of different colours the red was the senior.

 

[Guest]

How about my lovely blue European Community flag with the union jack in the corner - no bother about flying that as an ensign???

Can't be breaking any rules surely!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Hex1e on Mon Mar 4 15:55:58 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jamesjermain]

Yes, there Is.

The European flag is not a recognised ensign and stricktly speaking if you fly one in the waters of another country you are in breach of International Law. Once again, thougbh, it is unlikely anyone will pull you up though naval officers, local customs and excise and members of relevant local diplomatic staffs are entitled to prosecute you.

JJ

 

[jamesjermain]

And another is...

The Royal Cornwall

JJ

 

[Guest]

Does size matter?

Will it be OK if I fly my nice blue Euro ensign from a pole near the back of the boat but not actually on the ensign staff?

and maybe have just a tiny tiny red ensign as well, to satisfy - does size matter?

 

[jamesjermain]

Hmmmm! nm

.

JJ

 

[Guest]

Size

Are there any regs regarding ensign size in relation to the boat?

Bernie B.

 

[AndrewB]

Re: Yes, there Is.

Wasn't there a report last year of a British yacht being fined in Portugal for wearing a Euro-ensign?

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Size

Why would you want to fly (wear) a EEC flag? are you not british first, european second? The official ensign of this nation, is the red ensign! What is the matter with you are you not proud of your maritime heritage, I dont give a damn about governments etc., But I am proud of who I am and of which country I originate from! If you want to fly a european flag, try it on the port spreader, then its ok, thats if you want to! I don't and please don't continue with this uneccessary debate, the regulations are laid down. I for one abide by those! Admittedly not many others! "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools".

 

[Guest]

Re: Size

Thanks for putting me right. I am actually quite proud to be English but perfectly willing to wear the Union flag.

I just wanted one of those blue ones...