Speaking of Dutchmen

DeeGee

DeeGee

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There is a main-management system known as The Dutchman. It consists of cords threaded through the main, so that as the main is dropped, the cords determine the folds and keep it all nice and tidy... so avoiding those horrible lazybags or whatever... has anyone experience of the Dutchman: I heard there might be a chafing problem?

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all
 
HHmmm, I think we call this a Lazy Jack System (the only difference in Dutch spelling is Systeem). Not the complete Dehler system with bags (they call it main drop system) but consists only of lines. A good and not exspensive system, includes blocks mounted at the spreaders. This way you can fix the lines along the beam and mast when not needed. Before lowering the main, pull these lines to set up the system. It really works well for 30ft and above ships, certainly with a new (and stiff) main. Perhaps a drawing might help... lemme look for one....

Rene.

<hr width=100% size=1>Never underestimate the strenght of human stupidity
 
No, that is different. The lazy jacks, with or without a bag, constrain the main between the two planes in which the lines are tautly stretched.

The Dutchman consists of lines threaded through the surface of the sail from one side to the other, so the sail must zig-zag down in a totally orderly fashion. No bag is needed.

The lazy jacks on their own suffer from the fact that the sail can fall around at the back outboard end if there is no bag, and the zig-zag is not necessarily orderly.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all
 
The Dutchman (that's the name of the company) sail flaking system is here:

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://images.sailnet.com/dutchman/sailflaking/sfindex.htm>http://images.sailnet.com/dutchman/sailflaking/sfindex.htm</A>

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
In the 1980's Beneteau offered this as standard on their cruising boats. It's been dropped (..!) since. Don't know why (unless it's as somebody else said for reasons of chafe) because I really like the idea especially with full length battens.

John

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I am in the process of putting a system in place on my boat, based on the dutchman system, i need to play with it a bit but basically what you have is the topping lift as your mainline (like the dutchman) but their is going to be a stainless ring at the end of each batten pocket ( i have fully battened main don't think it will work otherwise) and the vertical lines will be led through these, it won't be quite as tidy on the boom as the dutchman but people i have talked to have commented on the chafe and how quickly the lines degrades in sunlight, this is why i opted for my method because i could replace everything with out messing about with the main........any Qs pm me.......cheers keith

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Ah, I see... But this includes making holes in the main. Where I come from, this is considered a major crime! Never heard or seen such a system, so I can't comment on it. What I know from traditional Lazy-Jack systems (the ones without the bags) do work. Never had any trouble with the end of the sail.....

<hr width=100% size=1>Never underestimate the strenght of human stupidity
 
I have the Dutchman reefing system on my cat - main and mizzen. The main is fully battened. So far have only sailed it once from Plymouth to Chichester but was very impressed with the ease you can put in a reef. The boat has sailed to the Caribbean and back and no signs of wear. Maybe on long ocean passages it could be a problem but one I could very easly live with due to the advantages. It certainly looks a lot tidier than a lazy jacks system. You would hardly know it was there.

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I've sailed on a Santa Cruz 70 with the dutchy system (not from Cornwall) it threads through eyes in the main....works well but on the boat I was on there had been some chaffing through at the front where the loads are quite high...trouble is the line is very thin so it will chaffe.....

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Re: My Preference

Is neither.

I find lazy jacks have their place on boats over 40ft with light crews but I don't like them when I'm hoisting quite often. If I was pushed I might have a stack pak but some of the loose boom covers, I've used to get around the lazy jacks, would test MENSA.

The dutchman is a bit fiddly to setup correctly though it works very well in practise. The Topping lift element is adjustable to get the vertical lines straight and any change of the boom angle to the mast effects that. So topping lift or vang adjustments might need an adjustment to your dutchman. The boat I've sailed on most with dutchmen is a Catalina and the topping lift is not used in a conventional way at all. You are also left with two or three vertical standing lines, like fishing line, when you've dropped your sails. Again you get a more complex boom cover task. Most of the boats I've seen with this system as standard have it removed within a season or two.

I'm not fond of spare gear aloft. I've sailed boats upto 60ft with neither systems and while it can be heavy work squaring away a big mainsail, it can be done and the hoist is dead simple.

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Re: My Preference

Just to be awkward, I love the system. Spent a few months working on a charter Catalina and found it worked great once you'd got used to it.

The chafe seemed no worse than with lazyjacks (one of the Catalinas in the fleet was fitted with lazyjacks), and it didn't have the lazyjack problem of getting boom ends caught when hoisting. It made for a neater drop as well, as the sail is automatically flaked onto the boom as its dropped.

The system we used allowerd the vertical lines to be lowered once the sail was stowed, so a normal sail cover could be used.

If I had a boat large enough to need a sail stowing system, i'd definately go for the Dutchman system.

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