WoodyP
Well-Known Member
You haven't had agricultural engineers to deal with.
Spanner kits
- Thread starter Neeves
- Start date
Neeves
Well-Known Member
They are almost perfect for the CAV filter, if it is attached sufficiently remotely, and bleeding the fuel line (at least on a MD20). One tool doing 2 very simple tasks. The same tool has no place if you need to torque a nut, but then a very expensive spanner is also useless - if the torque is specified you need a torque wrench not a spanner ( not any spanner).
The religious fervour with which spanners (and spring washers
) are worshipped is misplaced. I'm the first to agree, or at least the second to agree that in a well found work shop you will have the right tool for the job. Yachts are not well found workshops - they are not workshops at all. Yachts are simply not designed for ease of (engine) maintenance, nor is the top of the mast. We don't need one set of spanners but maybe 3 different complete sets (+ 2 sets of sockets) and some of the members of the set might never be used and others used regularly. My 30mm long modified M6 spanners for the water pump are perfect (for the water pump) but have no role anywhere else.
Bleeding a fuel line requires almost no tension and there is virtually no opportunity to destroy the bolt involved nor skin your knuckles. Similarly a CAV filter - and one simple tool allowing both tasks to be completed.
Maybe if you suggest that taking a windlass apart needs a decent set of spanners - I might sympathise but I would also suggest if you had serviced the windlass annually, as suggested by the windlass manufacturer, and coated the bolts with Tufgel or Duralac then the need for expensive spanners would be factorially reduced.
Horses for courses.
Mister E
Well-Known Member
The proper tool is to avoid damage and ruining the not of bolt.
Any form of grip damages them needing replacement especially for bleeding a fuel system. You want to be certain that when you need to open a bleed screw you can every time.
The best idea is to keep the correct size proper tool attached to filters.
Any form of grip damages them needing replacement especially for bleeding a fuel system. You want to be certain that when you need to open a bleed screw you can every time.
The best idea is to keep the correct size proper tool attached to filters.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Bricks and pavers tend not to rust.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I am very glad to say that I haven't, I have probably come across the chewed up remains of some fastenings that have though.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
If you attack bolts like a bull in a china shop you will damage them. Treat them with respect and they will outlast you.
I know that owners do not respect some of their equipment as I am the 'go to' locally for windlass that have been neglected. Spanners...?? you must be joking - when I go to help I take an angle grinder with thin slitting blades. This a typical windlass, lubricated with worn gears, mud and sea water. Make a search of windlass using the YBW search engine and wonder about the numbers of windlass retired through corrosion - usually abuse of the nuts holding the device together.
I'd need two spanners attached to the filters as I had 2 engines, and then I'd need two more, much smaller, spanners for the CAV filters.
I have negated the need for the spanners as I simply need carry one alligator wrench which will 'service' 2 bleed bolts and 2 x CAV filters and the wrench will check the tightness of any 'screw in' shackle pins (on a walk round prior to casting off lines).. Neither the CAV filters attachments (its a rather long bolt with a very small hex head) nor the bleed fuel nut will be worn as the tensions necessary are light.
I suspect many owners address the fuel bleed nut and the hex head on the CAV filter with an adjustable spanner - I've never read of anyone wearing out either of these items
chris-s
Well-Known Member
Since someone already mentioned mole grips, when a spanner/socket won’t work, Im going to throw in another great tool, Knipex mini Cobra pliers, amazing grip.
Great for rounded nuts/bolts, split pins, shackles, pan head slotted screws with a chewed up slot.
Great for rounded nuts/bolts, split pins, shackles, pan head slotted screws with a chewed up slot.
Mister E
Well-Known Member
Chris you have just posted a tool that I really really hate.
However yesterday I used a pair on something that no other tool was suitable for and it was not a nut.
It is all about the proper tool for the job at the time. It is not from an engineering point of view what is easy and convenient,up to a point.
If you have to walk a long way carrying larger spanners or sockets it is not practical to carry a full set from 27 to 40 mm.
Also on a small boat it is not practical to have on board at least three of every size of the proper tool as at least one will go for a swim when desperately needed.
The whole thing is a compromise especially when not working in a fully equipped workshop or factory.
However yesterday I used a pair on something that no other tool was suitable for and it was not a nut.
It is all about the proper tool for the job at the time. It is not from an engineering point of view what is easy and convenient,up to a point.
If you have to walk a long way carrying larger spanners or sockets it is not practical to carry a full set from 27 to 40 mm.
Also on a small boat it is not practical to have on board at least three of every size of the proper tool as at least one will go for a swim when desperately needed.
The whole thing is a compromise especially when not working in a fully equipped workshop or factory.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Yes excellent for rounding off nuts and bolts.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Everyone carries a Leatherman (except me) and no-one complains about them
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I would
if I saw someone using one on a nut or bolt. I don't and never have carried one the nearest I came was a Wichard pocket knife with a serrated blade, marlin spike and shackle key, still got it somewhere.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
While you are all dicking about looking for the right tool, I have used my Stilsons to rip off the nut and get on with the job. Nuts are cheap, time is expensive. (-;
Boathook
Well-Known Member
I've got a few bahco and whilst they are better than others, they still seem to adjust "open".
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
The degree of tightness / slack and therefore fit of the jaws must be governed by the pitch of the thread and its machining by it's nature it will be coarse and of average machining and will imo always have a degree of slop unlike a correctly sized spanner or socket.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Apropos of spanners, someone is offering two little-used 1/2" torque wrenches on the 'For Sale' at this very moment.
Bargains not to be missed!
Bargains not to be missed!
Poignard
Well-Known Member
This is business, not a topic for jest, Father Hackett
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I was tempted when you said you were in the shipbreaker yard but was feeling a little more charitable and respectful of age at that point.
Knackers yard was what crossed my mind
Poignard
Well-Known Member
"feeling a little more charitable and respectful of age"I was tempted when you said you were in the shipbreaker yard but was feeling a little more charitable and respectful of age at that point.
Knackers yard was what crossed my mind
Don't ever feel that.
The day I lose my sense of humour will, I hope, be my last.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Time to add to the background.
You buy a Fortress anchor, it comes in a neat cardboard box and consists of a number of parts that are to be bolted together, stainless bolts, Nyloc nuts, washers.
You have it at home, all new and shiny, and you are going to assemble it at home and store it on the boat assembled, you have already made your own storage bag.
But to assemble it you need 2 spanners and though you do not know it - some Duralac or Tufgel (because the stainless bolts will corrode and lock up - in a short period of time). Of course if Fortress supplied Tufgel then the nuts and bolts would be easy to release, there would be no torque and the nuts and bolts would never be subject to tension that would round the nuts and bolts. If Ikea can do it why not....
Why do Fortress not supply a little tube of Tufgel and 2 apprpriately sized spanners. Ikea supply the tools to assemble furniture, why not spanners, or for other simple kit - a decent screw driver. Our boom was held together with fancy Alan bolts, the outhaul failed halfway up Tasmnania's east coast - did we have the fancy key to disassemble the boom - of course not, why not? We bodged using a standard Alan key - but why was the key not supplied? Why did they use fancy Alan keys in the first place? If Ikea can supply an Alan key why not....?
The alligator wrenches that have met such criticism meet 'my' needs perfectly - they would allow you to assemble the anchor at home in comfort - (if they also suppled Tufgel). The anchor once assembled would possibly never need to be disassembled, ever. And with Nyloc nuts there is no need for over torqueing. Fortress need only stock one size of wrench - as the wrench will fit all the different sizes of bolts they use - so they can have them made in their hundreds.
Your new windlass arrives in its cardboard box - all assembled. No Duralac nor Tufgel on a single one of the myriad of stainless nuts, bolts and studs. You take the device apart on the living room floor so that you can learn how to disassemble for future servicing - why not supply with the appropriately sized spanners and Alan keys ...... and a little tube of Tufgel. Again - an Aligator wrench would be ideal - it would fit all the nuts and bolts and could be the same wrench for the cross section of small to large windlass. Don't preach that you will round the nuts - if you don't make it easy people will not service the device and once corrosion sets in - of course the nuts become rounded they are immovable.
Supply drop forged spanners - think extra costs - CAD/CAM cutting of hardened steel - cheap as chips - and you could make Aligator wrenches from offcuts (off the same steel being used to build nuclear submarines.
You don't like the focus on ground tackle - your radar scanners comes with 6 stainless nuts and bolts, maybe again Nyloc nuts - why not a single correctly sized spanner - the list of kit where a cheap and cheerful tool would be.... thoughtful (on the part of the supplier)
If Ikea can do it - so can (should) Lewmar.
Now if the kit needs high tensile nuts and bolts then you will need a torque wrench - but how often does this need arise on a boat....? If you are servicing a 30 year old engine then you will need, and have scattered around you, your complete tool kit - no need for an alligator wrench - its niche is the living room floor when your tool kit is in the back of the car and its raining, cold and dark - why not the tool in the cardboard box...?
Jonathan
You buy a Fortress anchor, it comes in a neat cardboard box and consists of a number of parts that are to be bolted together, stainless bolts, Nyloc nuts, washers.
You have it at home, all new and shiny, and you are going to assemble it at home and store it on the boat assembled, you have already made your own storage bag.
But to assemble it you need 2 spanners and though you do not know it - some Duralac or Tufgel (because the stainless bolts will corrode and lock up - in a short period of time). Of course if Fortress supplied Tufgel then the nuts and bolts would be easy to release, there would be no torque and the nuts and bolts would never be subject to tension that would round the nuts and bolts. If Ikea can do it why not....
Why do Fortress not supply a little tube of Tufgel and 2 apprpriately sized spanners. Ikea supply the tools to assemble furniture, why not spanners, or for other simple kit - a decent screw driver. Our boom was held together with fancy Alan bolts, the outhaul failed halfway up Tasmnania's east coast - did we have the fancy key to disassemble the boom - of course not, why not? We bodged using a standard Alan key - but why was the key not supplied? Why did they use fancy Alan keys in the first place? If Ikea can supply an Alan key why not....?
The alligator wrenches that have met such criticism meet 'my' needs perfectly - they would allow you to assemble the anchor at home in comfort - (if they also suppled Tufgel). The anchor once assembled would possibly never need to be disassembled, ever. And with Nyloc nuts there is no need for over torqueing. Fortress need only stock one size of wrench - as the wrench will fit all the different sizes of bolts they use - so they can have them made in their hundreds.
Your new windlass arrives in its cardboard box - all assembled. No Duralac nor Tufgel on a single one of the myriad of stainless nuts, bolts and studs. You take the device apart on the living room floor so that you can learn how to disassemble for future servicing - why not supply with the appropriately sized spanners and Alan keys ...... and a little tube of Tufgel. Again - an Aligator wrench would be ideal - it would fit all the nuts and bolts and could be the same wrench for the cross section of small to large windlass. Don't preach that you will round the nuts - if you don't make it easy people will not service the device and once corrosion sets in - of course the nuts become rounded they are immovable.
Supply drop forged spanners - think extra costs - CAD/CAM cutting of hardened steel - cheap as chips - and you could make Aligator wrenches from offcuts (off the same steel being used to build nuclear submarines
.You don't like the focus on ground tackle - your radar scanners comes with 6 stainless nuts and bolts, maybe again Nyloc nuts - why not a single correctly sized spanner - the list of kit where a cheap and cheerful tool would be.... thoughtful (on the part of the supplier)
If Ikea can do it - so can (should) Lewmar.
Now if the kit needs high tensile nuts and bolts then you will need a torque wrench - but how often does this need arise on a boat....? If you are servicing a 30 year old engine then you will need, and have scattered around you, your complete tool kit - no need for an alligator wrench - its niche is the living room floor when your tool kit is in the back of the car and its raining, cold and dark - why not the tool in the cardboard box...?
Jonathan
Last edited: