Spanish rules again.......sorry!

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CaptainCava

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I know there has been a massive amount of posts on this and other forums.....and I know the Spanish regions operate largely autonomously (and therefore perhaps unpredictably at times)........and I know the CA have recently published a lot of new information on this......but can anyone clarify the following 3 questions for me?

1 – Re the 90 days limit:
One document says ‘if planning to reside continuously in Spain for more than 3 months, you are now required to register etc.’
Is continuously the key word here. In other words, if I was planning to spend 6 weeks in Atlantic Spain in June and July, followed by 5 weeks out of Spain in Portugal, followed by another 8 weeks in Spain in Sept, Oct, Nov, do I have to register? (somewhere!)

2 – Re the 183 day limit:
Is it 180 or 182 or 183 days.......
and is it within a calendar year.... or a tax year.... or any continuous period?

3 – From what I’ve read I think the following statement is clear (unless anyone knows different!)
My boat can stay longer than 180 days, as long as I don’t!

I know it’s a minefield, but any informed (and simple) replies would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
Hi I can only help you with part one of your question.. After 90 days you must register as a resident. I fact this can be quite advantageous as there is nothing to stop you registering in different countries.
 
Right, just to show how completely brainless I am, I will attempt An Short Answer. Or three.

1. I don't know.
2. Total of 183. Spanish tax year is calendar year.
3. Correct.

However . . the latest thing to emerge from that Other Thread, is that Spanish environmental taxation may, just may, come into effect from day one.
All this, to the best of my understanding. I'll now retire and let a thousand flowers blossom and diverse schools of thought contend. [attrib. Chairman Mao, 1956] /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
For your"simple" questions the RYA guidance on their website gives you the answers.

It does not, however, deal adequately with all the sub issues and variations which come out of these long threads.
 
1 - continuously yes.

2 - 183 days in a tax year triggers liability to tax throughout the EU unless you can satisfy them that another EU state has a prior claim on you. Complicated double tax treaty subject.

3 - I believe this to be correct.

However someone will no doubt be along shortly to say that this is all a load of bollocks.
 
Spain is no longer one country,it is divided in to independent regions some of which think they are indeed not part of Spain.I would sugest that you go to thew Commandancia in each port and report and GET IN WRITING PERMISSION TO STAY.If its not in writing with a name and a stamp its not worth anything.By the looks of it Spain shouls issue some kind of booklet to record dates and ports so everyone knowes whats what,but that probably will be TOO MUCH for spanish civil servants to work out!!!
 
SOB!!!!! SOB!!!!! SOB!!!!!! I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!

Will someone just spell out the rules so that I can berth in Spain without feeling that the Inquisition are going to seize me in the morning!!!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
SOB!!!!! SOB!!!!! SOB!!!!!! I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!

Will someone just spell out the rules

[/ QUOTE ]
There there. It's like Mornington Crescent - everybody knows the game but no-one knows the rules and the outcome is pretty well totally unpredictable
 
I think the simplest thing to do is on entering a Spanish port - Ask. Tell the authorities your intentions and ask what the consequences will be. If you intend to stay in Spanish waters for longer than 183 days, expect to pay taxes.
 
Thanks very much for all your replies........particularly James and Grehan. I shall venture forth to Spanish waters, enjoy the food, wine and sunshine..........and keep my ear to the ground to see if anything changes!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the simplest thing to do is on entering a Spanish port - Ask. Tell the authorities your intentions and ask what the consequences will be. If you intend to stay in Spanish waters for longer than 183 days, expect to pay taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]Seems reasonable Richard, except that it's not just about paying taxes. They can insist that the boat is reflagged and then the owner is fully qualified to skipper her.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the simplest thing to do is on entering a Spanish port - Ask. Tell the authorities your intentions and ask what the consequences will be. If you intend to stay in Spanish waters for longer than 183 days, expect to pay taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]Sounds straightforward, which authorities will you ask? Do you speak enough Spanish? If you tried to do that at Almerimar the marina office would be very helpful and tell you what they know (not much about this subject, and why should they?) and refer you to the main port of Almeria some forty minutes drive up the coast. Almeria is a modest sized commercial harbour with ferries and small ships coming and going all the time. I've had dealings with officials there (on unrelated business) and my Spanish is passable, but easy it ain't. I think you'll get a lot of blank looks, actually, then have a beer with the other yachties who will all tell you that it is no problem "as long as you keep your head down". /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

What might be possible is to have the boat sealed (precinto) voluntarily by the customs. That's what the Yanks do when they over-winter to avoid paying VAT - they are allowed a certain time in EU waters, and by sealing the boat (they still live aboard but cannot take the yacht out of the harbour without having the seal removed and replaced on return) the clock is stopped, I think. Certainly works for non EU folk and boats but I don't know about EU owners. Then you could tell the marina that you want your boat sealed (precinto) and they will call the customs Aduana (I think it's Aduana, if not it will be Guardia Civil but the marina will certainly know). We are meaning to look into this so let me know how you get on if you find anything out.
 
Its the same rules for motor cars too.

If you are resident, then you have to register your motor car within 30 days and pay the registration taxes. You also have to have a spanish driving license. This seems to be the same in many places (certainly France and Germany) for motor vechicules. However France, Germany and the UK unlike Spain don't apply the rules for motor vechicules to yachts.

In France the car registration tax (carte grise) can be quite high - up to 46 Euros (depends on the department) per fiscal CV. A friend of mine registered his old Corvette here - is was 38 CV's. He also had to get it past the "Controle Technique" (i.e. MOT) which required changing lights, adding a rear fog light etc. Note that this registration tax (in France, Spain) is not an import duty, nor is it VAT.

An interesting thing is that VAT is not necessarily due.
In this case he was an American resident, importing his US bought car from California when he was moving to France to become resident here. The requirements for not paying any tax where that he owned the car for more than 6 months before coming here, and that he did not sell it within 6 months. He has now sold it and no VAT is due.

In the case of driving licenses, you can exchange any european license for another one (free of charge).

Any way, all this IEDMT seems to make perfect sense - if you just remember a yacht is really a motor car ;-)

--
 
I've got another non-official confirmation of that for Spain -- I know the lady who wrote the letter and she would not have made a mistake on this futhermore she is a friend of and lives next to the guy who hosts Almerimar Life so it is effectively first-hand information....

http://almerimarlife.com/uk-driving-licence-tip
 
You are right about the driving license. My wife was issued with a 90€ fixed penalty notice by French police for being resident and using a UK license. I tried to tell them they were wrong....sigh...

I won't bore you with the details, but we made a successful appeal to the tribunal and the fine was cancelled. No apology though. We quoted French law shown here:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode...eTexte=20080625

This is European law so would be the same in Spain.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fairly sure you do not need to exchange your UK car licence when in France even as a resident. See Here

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the rules have been relaxed a little since I exchanged my license. It certainly used to be a requirement.

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Re the 90 day limit.
I believe that as an UK national if you are an employee and not retiring to Spain you do not need to obtain residencia. However it is recommended that you apply for a temporary residencia for stays longer than 3 months but less than one year. May be worth going on an Spanish expat forum for the area you plan to stop in, they will be able to help you with the detail, you may find that you do not need it. They may also help with how rigidly things are enforced. Do not be misled into believing that the Spanish paperwork system is slap dash, we have not found it to be so! But they have also been very helpful.
We have Spanish residencia and if you can get away without going through the process it would be better.
 
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