Spain Visit

[Guest]

Soon I'm off to Spain mainland to have a look at a boat that's for sale through a broker.

The yacht is 35 ft, 30 year old Rasmus. She is presently under the Swedish flag. I've looked at a number of the same yachts and she appears to be priced to the lower end of the price band. Mind you, by way of "extras", she is not well "loaded" but nevertheless I believe there's a good chance I would have to replace most of the stuff on a 30 year old vessel anyway.

Being a first time buyer there're a few things I'm not too sure about. I need to bear in mind that I'm in Spain as well.

Offer/Buy Process
So I looked at the boat and like what I see. I have a few reservations but not sufficiently competent to confirm one way or the other that I should have genuine concern.
I have a gut feel that some work will be needed on the yacht and upgrade of a few items as well.
Imagine they're asking 30k
-what should I offer, roughly!
-is a verbal offer sufficient and follow up with "subject to survey.
-should I have to formalise anything at this stage.
-should I contact a surveyor before I leave the UK.

Bureaucratic Things

Imagine I bought the boat and payed the dosh. The yacht is Swedish flagged, I'm British and I intend to sail in the Med.
-do I have to do anything to change the registration.
- what would be the best course of action regards insurance assuming I don't have to change anything.
-vat stuff?
-Spanish Importation tax. Will I be faced with a bill or two?
-Should I trust the Broker to provide that information proactively. Will there be other surprises
-Confirmation of ownership
----
(Is it better to buy in the UK for peace of mind and maybe fewer potential surprises. Is the risk greater buying a swedish noat in spain than a uk boat in uk?)

Upgrades
A cople of upgrades I would like to make include a bowthruster and mainsail furling and re-rigging.
Bearing in mind the vessel is 35 ft could someone out there give me a very very rough cost estimate on those upgrades. Is it easy to get the work done in Spain, is it competitively priced and what about the standard of workmanship ?



Any advice would be welcome. I'm sure someone has bought a yacht abroad and faced a few hurdles on the way. I'd appreciate your views, warnings, things to do and any lessons learned.
"Should I buy a Moody 38 instead??)


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by mike4444 on 20/08/2002 10:20 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[gonad]

barcelona is the best place to be if you need to do up the boat.prices vary wildly so when you have bought let me know and I can give you all the people to deal with as I have just bought a boat out here and have been thru all that shit. price is what you feel is right I picked up a 28 year old carter 39 for what I thought was a good one.Had to re-rig but in spain it is difficult to get anything done on time! telephone no. of the ssr is 00442920768206. only ten pounds to register I believe good luck jon

 

[charles_reed]

Firstly, I'd be aware of the likelihood of osmosis in a boat of that age in that area.
I've spent a couple of years in the area and the older Scandinavian boats I've seen appear to be very prone. There are a number of thriving "osmosis treatment" businesses in S Spain and a most of them are people I'd steer clear of.
Many of the boats end up rather like a "tear-here" dotted line along the waterline.

I'd certainly rate buying a boat in Spain as rather more uncertain than purchasing one here - if for no other reason than the language problem, of course if you speak perfect Castilian...

If you find a good boat you're far more likely to get a bargain out there than here in the UK.

It all depends on where you are to get the work done, there are number of very good Spanish yards whose workmanship more than matches what you'll find in the more traditional parts of the UK and whos prices are about 65% of UK.

I'd suggest you need to have the advice of a local Brit yachtie and not commit yourself until the boat has been thoroughly surveyed.

If you like to drop me an e-mail via this board within the next 72 hours (I'm off back to my boat in the Med), telling me where/when I can probably provide you with some contacts.

Actual purchase transaction is fairly simple - how safe depends on the broker.

 

[Guest]

overwintered in spain last year - great country with lovely people and an attractive way of life.

however, i was warned before i went to get any boat work done in france or the uk and i saw why when i was there. they do not have anything like the depth of small boat skills / eqipment that we have, and this is compounded by a sometimes fairly casual attitude towards work standards. my gearbox was smashed up just in the dissembly process by a volvo agent there, and i saw one boat haveing a new rudder made by the yard using hardboard as an internal former. boats resprayed in the open next to unsheeted new boats. i could go on but wont

caveat emptor

 

[Guest]

Your biggest problem is VAT.

Was it VAT paid in Sweden ? (or anywhere else in Europe)

If the VAT situation is clear then what you get is what you paid for.

Which surveyor are you using ?

 

[smee]

Thats a long list of questions;
however I bought my boat in Spain (Costa Blanca) almost two years ago. It was a Dutch boat registered to a German, and I am British.

I bought it through a Spanish broker who was fairly good but a little lax by my standards (I've done a YBDSA brokers course!!).

Offer what you think you can get a away with first! Then go higher if you still want to! Some will take silly offers, some won't. Just got to try really. You don't give a rough idea of the price of the boat so its difficult to say what to try! I knocked 20% off the asking price once and got it, another time (the one in Spain) I couldn't get a penny off the asking price - mind you it was a bargain anyway!!

When making an offer you should always make it subject to survey (even if you're not sure if you will get a professional surveyor to look at it) - saves complication of trying to add survey request after offer accepted. Brokers don't like it when goal posts get moved!

If he's a good broker he will tie you into a Sale & Purchase agreement which protects both buyer and seller, and gives a timeframe for completion, for getting a survey, and for pulling out of the sale or completing. If he doesn't, I'd personally be wary, as it then gives you no protection over your deposit, which is usually 10% paid on acceptance of offer.

Make sure the boat is deemed EC VAT paid and with evidence of it, otherwise things could get tricky. If its ever been owned by a company this should make you wary as VAT status could be difficult to trace and prove. As its 30 years old it should probably be deemed exempt as it is pre all the VAT fuss. You need to check this for certain though. VAT status is very important.

I'd try and line up a surveyor before you go, although there are several British ones around in Spain, some good, some absolutely hopeless (unfortunately I know this from bitter experience!!), also at this time of year (same as when I bought my boat) they all seem to leave Spain and go to SIBS! I know several good British ones in UK and one good British one in Alicante.

As regards flag and registry, if you are not Swedish you cannot keep boat Swedish registered. It must be Bristish registered, be that SSR which is acceptable in Spain, or Part One.
If you decide on Part One; upon purchase you will need a Bill of Sale recognised by the Registry, and a de-registration letter from the Swedish authorities, (plus measurement survey might be needed) and five years worth of the boats history: all Bills of Sale if more than one owner in that time. Its about a £100+ but means a bit more than SSR, not that much but a bit!! (it proves ownership to a greater degree than SSR which doesn't prove a jot - it has been known for stolen boats to be SSR'd!!)
SSR is easier you just fill in a form and send off a cheque (£10???).

I have not come across Spanish Import Tax being requested on a boat that is used and already there. But can't give a bullet proof answer as I don't know.....just hope I don't get any requests for it!!!

Insurance shouldn't be a problem, many companies do it even if boat is abroad, they will expect a survey on a boat of that age, but the registry is of no concern to them unless you have a marine mortgage.

There are quite a few good boat yards around, afterall there are a lot of gin palaces in places like the Balearics that probably have had bow thrusters fitted. Manana may be a bit of a problem, but the costs seem to be less for boatyard work. As regards rigging, there doesn't seem to be any riggers round where my boat is, so I will bring my own local rigger down at some point as I know and trust him.

Anything to do with wood is a bit difficult in Spain, they don't seem to have much of it! Any teak and ply is best got from UK!!

I notice you are a first time buyer. Really its a case of just be careful. You are parting with a lot of money, and things can be just as tricky here. Get some books on buying a secondhand boat so you get a gist of the legal aspects, and know what to expect.

I hope the broker speaks good English or is English, as it will make it a hell of a lot easier; I wouldn't want to try with only a Spanish speaking broker! Unless you are fluent, of course.

Good luck, incidentally there seems to be more likelihoods of getting a bargain in Spain! Just be careful. I bought my dream boat for less than half it would cost here, so it can work out well if you take the plunge!