Spain shoots at jet skiers.... ?

Press comment from Gibraltar local newspaper Panorama last week:~



Chief Minister thanks PM for taking matter to highest level


Her Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar says it is pleased to note the strong action taken by the Prime Minister, David Cameron, at a meeting of the European Council in Brussels.
It is understood that Mr Cameron "made a beeline" for Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy soon after arriving at the summit. The Prime Minister confronted Mr Rajoy and demanded an explanation for the events on Sunday after another illegal incursion into British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.
At a press conference, Mr Cameron said he wanted to make sure a full investigation took place and it was important that countries followed international law.
"I think this is a totally unacceptable episode and I made that clear,’ he said. ‘I think it is very important that people on Gibraltar know that we support them, we support their sovereignty. We need to find out more about what happened but from what I have heard...it is not acceptable."
The Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, said: “I wrote to the Prime Minister on
Wednesday and my letter was as clear and unequivocal as the motion on this subject which I proposed and that was unanimously passed by Parliament yesterday. Less than a fortnight ago I spoke to Mr Cameron during my visit to Downing Street about illegal incursions. The Prime Minister has been true to his word and, even as we debated the motion in Parliament yesterday, he was acting in support of his staunch commitment to the integrity of British sovereignty of the waters around Gibraltar.
“The people of Gibraltar will join with me in thanking him for taking this issue directly and immediately, at the very highest level, to the Spanish Prime Minister. The issue now is about supporting the Royal Navy’s Gibraltar Squadron, the Royal Gibraltar Police and Gibraltar Defence Police in preventing a recurrence of these illegal incursions which have been ongoing since 2010.”
 
VO5 said:
What are you talking about now ?

You have no idea because you do not have the facts.

The facts are that tobacco smuggling big scale has nothing to do with Gibraltar.

The hidden truth is that there is very large scale tobacco smuggling across Europe but the problem is that it is smuggling of counterfeit tobacco.

There is no counterfeit tobacco in Gibraltar to smuggle, so again you are ill informed.

Your second comment however is correct. Anything to do with Gibraltar to the Spanish is a diversion away from their own self inflicted very grave economic problems and their internal political implications.

And I am adding this because I have just remembered....

Why do you venture the opinion that David Cameron would "get rid" of Gibraltar in the blink of an eye ?

Where do you get this opinion from, or is it that he has told you himself ?

What you say is nonsense.

No British Prime Minister can do that, don't be silly.
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I cant comment on what goes on now,but I do recall twenty years ago when smuggling by the Gibraltarian RIBs was rife and very open.They would blatently steam out of port loaded up with "cargo" and the authorities were unable or unwilling to do anything.They would deliver the cargo,and often take in a trip to North Africa for more exotic goods.The Spanish helicopter was the only resource fast enough to catch them,and the RIBs tended not to show up on radar.Most of them seemed to do quite well out of it.
 
VO5 said:
Pissed off with what exactly ?

This grave incident occurred inside British Gibraltar Territorial Waters, without any provocation, I might add.

This young lad was riding his jetski and got shot at 4 times with rubber bullets fired from a Spanish Guardia Civil Patrol Boat that had no right to fire on anyone or even be there.

Luckily all 4 shots missed.
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How on earth do they know that it was rubber bullets that were fired?
 
Nostrodamus said:
Spain denies patrol boat shot at British jetskier off Gibraltar

http://news.uk.msn.com/guardian/spain-denies-patrol-boat-shot-at-british-jetskier-off-gibraltar-11

Good on them is all I can say... after a week of jet skiers buzzing around I think it is about time to cull the jet skies!
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Now having just been on the Windermere "lake is dead" thread ... maybe the lake rangers should be given guns so that they can shoot up speeding motorboats ... I mean no need for fines then and lots of fun public on the shore watching very expensive motorboats sink ...

PP
 
pisspoor said:
Now having just been on the Windermere "lake is dead" thread ... maybe the lake rangers should be given guns so that they can shoot up speeding motorboats ... I mean no need for fines then and lots of fun public on the shore watching very expensive motorboats sink ...

PP
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Paint ball guns would be ok ,nice sticky gloss paint!:)
 
Rigger Mortice said:
How on earth do they know that it was rubber bullets that were fired?
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http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29825


A Guardia Civil office has stated to the Royal Gibraltar Police that he fired 4 baton rounds at the jetskier.

For those unaware, the video shows a foreign paramilitary vessel in British waters firing at a British citizen.

Draw your own conclusions.

I write this some 700 yards from where the incident occurred.
 
How about sending a Type 46 Destroyer, to randomly pump a few "rounds" into Spanish territory?

Our problematic relationship with the EU has always been about us employing people to to religiously enforce regulations on ourselves whilst everybody else blatantly ignores them.
 
Biggles Wader said:
I cant comment on what goes on now,but I do recall twenty years ago when smuggling by the Gibraltarian RIBs was rife and very open.They would blatently steam out of port loaded up with "cargo" and the authorities were unable or unwilling to do anything.They would deliver the cargo,and often take in a trip to North Africa for more exotic goods.The Spanish helicopter was the only resource fast enough to catch them,and the RIBs tended not to show up on radar.Most of them seemed to do quite well out of it.
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Yes, that was 20 years ago, not nowadays.
The Government confiscated all the ribs and that stopped it.
For you to say they then went on to North Africa for "more exotic goods", implying drugs, is untrue.
What is true is that Spanish organised gangs, seeing that the only deterrent was being chased by the Guardia Civil Helicopter, which you mention, but totally out of context, took it upon themselves together with North Africans to smuggle drugs into Spain. It is not correct to imply Gibraltarians had anything to do with it.
This is because obviously the market in Spain for drugs is huge, whereas here it is miniscule. Therefore who in his right mind is going to smuggle drugs in here only to have to re smuggle them into the country for which the large market exists. Anyone can see immediately your assertion does not make sense.
Large scale smuggling into Spain does exist, but it is via three Spanish ports mainly, one in the east, one in the west and one in the north. Additionally the mountain range to the north is a very active crossing point but it is seldom or ever discussed.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
But the Spanish government has denied it.
Perhaps it's best to just wait and see rather than jump to hasty conclusions?
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How do you mean wait and see ?
Wait and see until someone gets killed by trigger happy paramilitaries of a foreign country invading the legitimate territorial waters of another, and both in the EU ?
And what exactly do you mean by hasty conclusions ?
There are no hasty conclusions.
Instead there is irrefutable supportable evidence for all to see in the video link connected to the Gibraltar Chronicle article which Captain Sensible has posted above as a link.
Go and look at it, teapot, go on.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
Perhaps it's best to just wait and see rather than jump to hasty conclusions?
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So the RGP investigate, witnesses confirm it, the Guardia Officer admits it, the report is passed to the Gib Government who draw it to the attention of the British Government.

On clear evidence, the British PM complains to the Spanish PM.

What, exactly, should we be waiting for?
 
If the French came into the solent and started shooting at jet skiers there would be outrage (although some praise from those sick of jet skiers).
With GIB the PM says... come on mate.. its not really on and that will probably the end of it apart from the Guarda concerned will probably get promoted.
Anyone who has spent time in Gib knows these various breaches are common place.

Having looked at the jet ski video am I the only one who seems to think he seems to be taunting them by going round in circles. He could have left well before shots were fired. It is still wrong but I still think there is more to this.
 
Nostrodamus said:
Having looked at the jet ski video am I the only one who seems to think he seems to be taunting them by going round in circles. He could have left well before shots were fired. It is still wrong but I still think there is more to this.
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You took the words from my mouth.

I can't see any maritime force ignoring, what seems obvious to me, deliberate provocation.

Still puzzled by the use of baton rounds. Seem to have been fired from a moving platform at a speeding jetski 300m away. The effective range of a baton round is about 25m.
 
There is no taunting there, the pair of you, Nostradamus and Chinita.
Look really carefully.
The lad was trying out his new jetski.
He came out in a westerly heading from Western Beach.
The Spanish patrol boat was already inserted into British Gibraltar Territorial waters. "Already inserted". Under what legitimate right was it inserted in the first place ?
The jetski makes a westing. The patrol boat follows behind. It looks as if the patrol boat will clear Gib waters but it chooses not to. Look at the sequence of events really carefully. The jetski at no time approaches the patrol boat. A round is fired. The jetski heads for open water and then alters course rapidly to head back to the safety of Western Beach. I do not see any tactical manoeuvre that could remotely be interpreted as provocation. What I do see is malicious action by a Spanish Patrol boat in waters outside its jurisdiction, in somebody else's domain behaving dangerously, bullying. This is totally unacceptable.
 
chinita said:
You took the words from my mouth.

I can't see any maritime force ignoring, what seems obvious to me, deliberate provocation.

Still puzzled by the use of baton rounds. Seem to have been fired from a moving platform at a speeding jetski 300m away. The effective range of a baton round is about 25m.
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The baton rounds were not fired from a moving platform at the distance you suggest. The distance is much less, more likely one third of that distance. The tongue of navigable water there is narrow and further restricted by the windsock island and extension. Admiralty chart 45 refers. Furthermore closer inshore the water is shallow. At the eastern shore is Western Beach. The whole area is an enclosed area bounded by groynes - all of it British Gibralaltar Territorial Waters - in which a foreign paramilitary vessel had no right to be in, in the first instance.
 
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OK, 100m. Still totally uneffective. Have you ever fired one? I have.

If this sort of event is unacceptable and you are concerned about future transgression why don't you establish a clear demarcation line across which navigation would be impossible. Buoys supporting netting, pontoons, whatever you feel is necessary to preserve your integrity?
 
chinita said:
OK, 100m. Still totally uneffective. Have you ever fired one? I have.

If this sort of event is unacceptable and you are concerned about future transgression why don't you establish a clear demarcation line across which navigation would be impossible. Buoys supporting netting, pontoons, whatever you feel is necessary to preserve your integrity?
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There is a clear demarcation line that the Spanish choose to ignore. A physical barrier is not a practical proposition.

There have been more than 250 incursions into British Waters by Spanish State vessels this year alone. Diplomacy has tied the hands of the RN patrol vessels, the Royal Gibraltar Maritime unit and the MOD Police. The Spanish know full well that there will be no escalation and continue to breech civilised rules with impunity.

The majority of Spanish are decent people and locally very much want the status quo. The Guardia and RGP have continued this week to work together to stem the tide of smuggling across the Straits despite last Sundays incident.

The ballistics of baton rounds is, frankly, irrelevant. The fact they were discharged by officers of a Foreign Nation state in anothers waters is.

The whole ongoing dispute is down to the outraged jealousies of a few Spanish politicians who are the equivalent of Mr Angry of Purley but with political power.

If you wish to read more, two readable websites are the Gibraltar Chronicle and Panorama.

I spend a lot of time at sea in the waters around Gibraltar and the Straits and Im happy to answer any questions.
 
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