Spain 183 day rule - still being implemented?

[Tranona]

Just to add to Jim's summary, any additional tax is related to a boat you bring with you, and the tax can be avoided as explained earlier. There are no additional taxes that apply. a spanish boat will already have paid this type of tax when it was first purchased.

 

[Carmel2]

What about if you become tax resident in Spain but have a UK flagged boat which you keep in Greece and have no intention of ever taking into Spanish waters?

 

[ripvan1]

Doesn't that come under "worldwide assets"

 

[GrahamM376]

Doesn't that come under "worldwide assets"

Most likely. Various sites spell out Spanish taxes, such as this one - http://www.expatica.com/es/finance/tax/Taxation-in-Spain_471614.html

 

[boatman61]

I do not think that affects Brits.. I spent 4yrs full time liveaboard doing Andalucia and the Ballearics and never had a problem.. but then I was mobile 7mths of the year and after a cold and blowy first winter in Andratx at the Town Quay spent the next 3 winters in Agua Dulce..
Arrive October and stay till April.. then back to the islands.
I think it very much depends on how big an individuals Anal Footprint is... act like an arse and you attract attention.. take the piss by doing private charters at the expense of the locals.. sooner or later you'll get visited and slapped around the head.. one guy lost both his boats when he started putting boards up around Andratx for day charters etc.. bad move.
Legally one can stay 18mths before you MAY be asked to apply for residency or.. move on.
Foreigners (non EU) to the best of my knowledge have 90days.. like us in the US.

 

[Tranona]

I do not think that affects Brits.. I spent 4yrs full time liveaboard doing Andalucia and the Ballearics and never had a problem.. but then I was mobile 7mths of the year and after a cold and blowy first winter in Andratx at the Town Quay spent the next 3 winters in Agua Dulce..
Arrive October and stay till April.. then back to the islands.
I think it very much depends on how big an individuals Anal Footprint is... act like an arse and you attract attention.. take the piss by doing private charters at the expense of the locals.. sooner or later you'll get visited and slapped around the head.. one guy lost both his boats when he started putting boards up around Andratx for day charters etc.. bad move.
Legally one can stay 18mths before you MAY be asked to apply for residency or.. move on.
Foreigners (non EU) to the best of my knowledge have 90days.. like us in the US.

Sorry this is very confusing - and incorrect. as explained elsewhere the 183 day rule is there - but it is recent so your past experience is not relevant

Your 18 months suggestion is incorrect. Think you are confusing with the period that a non EU resident can keep a boat in the EU under temporary importation. The 90 days is Schengen rules for non residents - not boats, but is currently being revised to make longer stays easier.

The 183 day rule is an EU benchmark time mainly related to residence, although not all states use it. however it is applied more widely to means of transport which includes cars and boats where states can require local registration, compliance with local rules or payment of circulation taxes. Again not all states do impose on pleasure boats, but some such as Portugal and Croatia do - and greece has proposed such measures in the recent past, but not implemented them.

So, a complicated picture and it makes sense for people wishing to cruise EU waters to keep up to date with the latest rules through sources such as the RYA and Cruising Association.

 

[GrahamM376]

So, a complicated picture and it makes sense for people wishing to cruise EU waters to keep up to date with the latest rules through sources such as the RYA and Cruising Association.

Not forgetting of course every petty official has his/her own interpretation of rules

 

[boatman61]

Sorry this is very confusing - and incorrect. as explained elsewhere the 183 day rule is there - but it is recent so your past experience is not relevant

Considering I live in and operate yacht deliveries around the world out of Portugal how recent are you talking.. 5 minutes ago..??

 

[Tranona]

Sorry this is very confusing - and incorrect. as explained elsewhere the 183 day rule is there - but it is recent so your past experience is not relevant

Considering I live in and operate yacht deliveries around the world out of Portugal how recent are you talking.. 5 minutes ago..??

I was specifically talking about Spain, but if you want to talk about the relevance of 183 days to boats in Portugal then the new rules came into effect about 3 years ago. Well covered in the press and particularly by the RYA who played a part in negotiating with the Portuguese in clarifying the new rule.

Suggest on this and related topics you read up on what the rules actually are from the sources I suggested rather than relying on your own experience.

 

[boatman61]

Okay.. I'll step back.. you stick with the 'Brit' obey every EU Directive to the letter and I'll continue to live with the 'European' follow as little as can be got away with.. at least till Brexit.. :encouragement:
Enjoy...

 

[Tranona]

Okay.. I'll step back.. you stick with the 'Brit' obey every EU Directive to the letter and I'll continue to live with the 'European' follow as little as can be got away with.. at least till Brexit.. :encouragement:
Enjoy...

Nothing to do with "obeying" EU directives because one is a Brit. If you fall foul of a rule in Spain or Portugal it is them that are obeying their rules - not the Brit who suffers the consequences, so your ideas that it is a "Brit" trait is not supportable. Simply stating what the rules are. If you bothered to read what I have written you will see that I have quite clearly stated (as have others) that rules are inconsistently applied, both between states and within states. However this does not alter the fact that the rules exist and it makes sense for people to be aware of them if they plan to do something that will bring them within the scope of a rule that may have negative consequences for them. There are many examples of people being caught out through ignoring rules, just as there are many who have "got away".

 

[macd]

Okay.. I'll step back.. you stick with the 'Brit' obey every EU Directive to the letter and I'll continue to live with the 'European' follow as little as can be got away with.. at least till Brexit.. :encouragement:
Enjoy...

A masterpiece of inferring what was not there to be inferred, of describing attitudes for which there is no evidence. If you can quote one example of anyone with whom you've disagreed writing that you should, must or ought to do something, please do so. I won't hold my breath.

 

[boatman61]

Macd.. I am not trying to score points.. and.. I have no agenda.. just saying how it is in Fact for thousands of us out there..
You keep shouting about these 'Many Caught' but in turn offer no examples whereas in my case a walk around most marina's in Andalucia and the Balearics will confirm what I say..
As for Portugal.. yes folks have been caught out and penalised.. EU citizens importing boats and dodging VAT, US boats thinking the Channel Isles were not in Schengen then finding out they are in fact still in the Tax Zone.. no fresh 18mths grace.. you owe us the VAT on that nice new Lagoon55. UK citizens being stopped because unlike the UK over here one Does need a qualification of some kind.. unlike England.
All I was doing was pointing out the real world but you chose to get a burr up your ass.. your problem not mine
Have a good life

 

[macd]

If you heard me shout, you over-rate the capabilities of my keyboard.
I have never written "many caught", unless you think "small minority" means the same thing.
No-one asked for examples.

The daft thing is that in many respects we're in broad agreement. I've been at pains to agree with you that the picture on the ground is for the most part much as you paint it. But the OP clearly desires to make an informed choice, and he is entitled to as full a picture as we can collectively offer. You are clearly a seasoned roamer; many owners taking their first long step overseas are not; many of them are innately conservative and reluctant to take risks. A few are born worriers. They're surely entitled to something more than "If you are a Brit you've nothing to worry about."

If you want to read advice that you might regard as scaremongering, I suggest you consult the RYA's, CA's, or JimB's web pages on going foreign. Very correct, conservative stuff. How could it be otherwise?

The trouble with examples is that most of the instances are anecdotal and word of mouth. Grehan, who regularly posts on here, once had literally to flee from Marbella to Gib to avoid the "means of transport importation tax".
Some further insights here:
http://www.visitmyharbour.com/articles/1657/living-on-board-in-spainbe-warned-
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=88253
http://www.spainvia.com/boats.htm
The latter is a reproduction of a CA investigation into the sort of liabilities we're discussing. It refers to examples.

Most of the other reported cases seem to have been in Mediterranean Spain. There are at least three potential taxes involved, for some of which which the rates and degree of enforcement are determined locally. So experiences in one area may not mirror those in others.

 

[sailaboutvic]

If you heard me shout, you over-rate the capabilities of my keyboard.
I have never written "many caught", unless you think "small minority" means the same thing.
No-one asked for examples.

The daft thing is that in many respects we're in broad agreement. I've been at pains to agree with you that the picture on the ground is for the most part much as you paint it. But the OP clearly desires to make an informed choice, and he is entitled to as full a picture as we can collectively offer. You are clearly a seasoned roamer; many owners taking their first long step overseas are not; many of them are innately conservative and reluctant to take risks. A few are born worriers. They're surely entitled to something more than "If you are a Brit you've nothing to worry about."

If you want to read advice that you might regard as scaremongering, I suggest you consult the RYA's, CA's, or JimB's web pages on going foreign. Very correct, conservative stuff. How could it be otherwise?

The trouble with examples is that most of the instances are anecdotal and word of mouth. Grehan, who regularly posts on here, once had literally to flee from Marbella to Gib to avoid the "means of transport importation tax".
Some further insights here:
http://www.visitmyharbour.com/articles/1657/living-on-board-in-spainbe-warned-
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=88253
http://www.spainvia.com/boats.htm
The latter is a reproduction of a CA investigation into the sort of liabilities we're discussing. It refers to examples.

Most of the other reported cases seem to have been in Mediterranean Spain. There are at least three potential taxes involved, for some of which which the rates and degree of enforcement are determined locally. So experiences in one area may not mirror those in others.

OH Dear Mac , you must be getting quite bored down there in Cete to have so much time on your hands to write so much

 

[boatman61]

Its colder and been snowing up that way.. it even snowed on the fringes of Coimbra a few days back.. there talk of building ski slopes in Monchique since then as well..lol
Snow in the Algarve.. who'd have thought.??

 

[nortada]

Its colder and been snowing up that way.. it even snowed on the fringes of Coimbra a few days back.. there talk of building ski slopes in Monchique since then as well..lol
Snow in the Algarve.. who'd have thought.??

Must be all this GW.

 

[GrahamM376]

there talk of building ski slopes in Monchique since then as well..lol
Snow in the Algarve.. who'd have thought.??

A few years ago, Kiss FM reported some snow on the hill at Monchique and people (many of whom had never seen snow) piled in their cars but it only lasted 20 mins.