Spade corrosion

[Neeves]

There is difference in measuring holding capacity, depend on how you do it, and using an anchor in real life. When measuring holding capacity you try to give the anchor as good a chance as possible and commonly select a clean seabed devoid of rocks, grass and weed. If you are manufacturer you also try to select a seabed in which your anchor will perform well. Real life is slightly different.

It merits note - at the time the emphasis was on hold, nothing else seemed to matter - all the manufacturers were touting the idea their anchor had more hold than the others. Historically hold had been the criteria to measure performance - so the idea of selecting a seabed where hold could actually be measured - made a lot of sense (even if it skewed, or not, the overall conclusions). The other factor is hold can be quantified other anchor characteristics are often subjective - and often a basis for argument

Good anchor testing should also test the ability of the anchor to engage (and then set) in other seabeds.

Anchor testing is incredibly expensive and arduous - often corners are cut and key tests, like setting in mud (as well as sand).

No test is perfect - its better to look at a range of tests - preferably under water (in fact any not under water I would exclude). But don't discourage people testing - we slowly develop a number of data points which combined are useful.

The best tests, there may be others, are those from SAIL/West Marine and two from Voile et Voileurs (( think all published in YM and other magazines). Unfortunately they are now slightly dated and we have had a couple of anchors introduced since then - some of which have never been tested at all (even by the manufacturer) - so much for the importance of holding capacity.

What is interesting - despite our interest in the past of holding capacity - these untested anchors enjoy sales. I wonder what changed the customers perceptions?

I started a thread some, longish, time ago asking about dragging of modern anchors - and there was little evidence of failure (but this might reflect a high degree of customer loyalty - as I think modern anchors do drag). However we might have sufficient holding capacity - (at the recommended size by the manufacturer for our yachts) and maybe the focus might move to ability to engage the seabed quickly and resist the forces developed during yawing and hobby horsing.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?502469-Dragging-of-anchors&highlight=Dragging+of+anchors

Jonathan

 

[BabaYaga]

Update from the OP:
Last Thursday showed the anchor to the Spade distributor here, who took serial number and some photos which he promised to present to the manufacturer.
Today he returned this message from Spade: Serial number shows that my anchor from 2003 was produced under the previous ownership of Spade and life time guaranties from that era is not honoured by the current owner.
Spade also said that the damage to the anchor does not effect its integrity, thus no risk for me in continuing using it.
They also offered a 35 percent discount if I still wanted to buy a new A80. That would be roughly 417 GBP.
Thoughts?

 

[noelex]

Some other anchor manufacturers offer outstanding guarantees and Spade UK seems to be lagging behind in my view.

Perhaps it is appropriate to review other manufacturers’ warranties.

There is an important distinction between anchor manufacturers that offer a lifetime warranty covering manufacturing defects (which is most reputable manufacturers) and anchor manufacturers that offer a lifetime warranty that covers both manufacturing defects and deformation (bending). The latter is far more useful, as even the strongest anchor can be bent in the wrong circumstance.

Unfortunately, Spade UK do not seem to be prepared to cover even the lesser warranty. This anchor has a manufacturing defect in my view. It is disappointing especially for a premium and expensive anchor that this is not covered. Confusingly, Spade USA seem to offer a much better warranty.

The pioneer company in this area was Fortress. They have a “no questions” replacement policy for any damage. This even applies to subsequent owners who have purchased the anchor second hand. There have been cases where the damage was in no way related to any defect (for example an anchor wedged under a rock that required considerable force to release) where the policy was still honoured. Fortress only charge for posting the replacement part. There is no need to return the bent part. Mantus have matched this guarantee, but do not even charge for delivery.

Many other anchor companies offer lifetime replacement warranties that covers deformation (bending) as well as manufacturing defects. These companies include Ultra, Rocna and Anchor Right. There are sometimes reasonable conditions such as that the anchor model selected is not too small for the boat, but they are excellent warranties that have real world benefits, although often the bent anchor has to be returned to a specific location and this can be expensive.

I started a thread on this issue many years ago which covers more detail, but is now somewhat out of date:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/anchor-warranties-113472-4.html

It is about time that this information was updated so if anyone has any corrections or recent practical experience of how a warranty worked in practice, please let me know.

 

[Neeves]

There is no suggestion, that I have seen, that this reflects in any way on Spade UK, or any UK distributor. If in fact there is an entity in the UK called Spade UK or operating 'as if' Spade UK?

Baba has contacted the dealer from whom he bought the anchor, possibly based in Scandinavia, and the dealer seems to have contacted the supplier/manufacturer of Spade, who would have all the serial numbers and when the anchors were made. I believe the dealer would have contacted Sea Tech and Fun, based in France with manufacture in Tunisia? (not sure of manufacture).

Fortress have set the bar for anchor warranty - but as I have mentioned though it is admirable to offer such a guarantee - is it realistic (for other suppliers). I cannot think of anyone else in any industry to offer such generous terms. We don't enjoy any warranty, except customer protection legal rights, for chain why focus on anchors. In general anchors last much longer than chain - it would be better to focus on chain, than anchors - some of which last for ever.

Fortress warranty is excellent - but the customer's pay. I obviously don't know the cost of the warranty but we pay for the stupidity, in some cases, of other owners.


I cannot agree that the anchor is still 'fit for service'. Personally I take up Spade's offer of the 35% discount and also try to repair the current damaged model, see earlier post.

Jonathan

 

[BabaYaga]

Yes, the distributor is in Sweden, where I am based.
According to them, the present owner of Spade, Seatech in France, took over following bancrupcy or similar of the original owner. This being the reason for not accepting warranty claims on anchors made prior to the take over.
Visiting the distributor I had the chance to compare my anchor with a present day version. In this, the ballast is covered by an aluminium sheet, where as on mine the lead seems to have been simply poured in to the chamber with no insulation between the two metals (as far as I can see).
Regarding the assurance of ”no risk to use”, I feel not fully convinced. The cracks on the fluke developed over several years, who knows if the might progress further and what this would mean for the anchors integrity?
I am contemplating the discount offer, but have not quite decided.
Thanks all for your contributions to this thread.

 

[Neeves]

Baba,

My anchor is like yours - the lead looks simply to have been poured in. The ballast chamber is not quite full. I can see no sign of an insulant between lead and aluminium. If anything the lead looks tightly attached to the aluminium with not even a hairline crack visible. I can see no sign of corrosion at the interface of the 2 metals either.

Sealing the interior of the ballast chamber looks like a sensible move - and sounds more realistic than coating the interior of the chamber with epoxy. I cannot think the epoxy would not burn - but maybe it left a coating of carbon - that isolated the 2 metals - don't know - they appear to have another solution, the Plate.

I was aware that Seatech and Fun was the 'new' corporate identity - its owned by a 'family'. I had not heard it was bought in a fire sale. From memory they are based around 50km inland from the Riviera, roughly half way between Nice and Marseille, nice location from which to run a business.

The anchors are Classification Society approved and rated Super High Holding Power. They had a major coup in supplying to the new RNLI Shannon lifeboats, which must really have upset Lewmar (whose Delta had been the standard for years). However the coup was arranged, I believe by the owner of Bluewater Supply - in Jersey? (clever move). The anchor, only one I think, is bolted by a bracket in prominent view on the foredeck - you can see the characteristic shank on many of the RNLI images - sticking up as a trip hazard! The Deltas were similarly positioned. The coup was engineered by Bluewater and tested by individual lifeboats. I don't know what else they looked at but Spade are not the cheapest.


I'd share your concerns over your current anchor - and be afraid of corrosion developing, hidden, and inside the ballast chamber. It might be perfectly safe, though I don't know how anyone could tell from a picture, but - to me - its not worth the risk. The anchor is worth a fraction of the value of the yacht. I would not 'patch it up' without emptying the ballast - you cannot know what is going on inside (and if you leave it alone - you would not sleep well.

Best wishes for your contemplations

Good Luck

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

The free and unconditional replacement guarantee given by Fortress is pretty amazing and probably unique. If I had a car dating back to 2003, and it began to show signs of deterioration, I wouldn't really expect the maker to give me a new one, free gratis. If you want to replace the anchor, take the offered discount.