southerly 38, 300k

[Ric]

Methinks I would prefer a s/h Ovni to a new plastic Southerly.

You can't compare them in the same sentence.

Alubat Ovnis are centreboarders - the board is a flat, unprofiled slab of aluminium, with inefficient hydrodynamic lift, and which does not contribute to the righting moment (all ballast is within the hull). Southerlies are lifting keel boats, with a deep, profiled cast-iron keel that has good hydrodynamic lift properties, and which has sufficient weight to increase the AVS when down.

As a result, Ovnis are pretty hopeless going upwind, whereas Southerlies are amongst the best upwind cruising boats out there. Neither are great in light airs, but the Southerlies are significantly better than Ovnis.

In their defence, Ovnis are excellent for RTW and going well off the beaten track as they are fairly indestructible. Their AVS is not great, but they don't get rolled over in the southern oceans because with the centreboard up there is nothing for the boat to trip over - they just surf.

Southerlies are also pilot-saloon boats with forward view from the chart-table. Ovnis are like submarines once down below.

If you wanted an "Aluminium Southerly" you should look at the Hermine range by the French architect François Lucas - they have a deep profiled lifting keel in aluminium, ballasted with lead shot.

 

[photodog]

If only it were as simple as that! If everybody bought 3 year old boats , there would never be any new boats built!

That 3 year old Southerly would have cost the original owner roughly the same in money terms to buy as he is now asking. Today's (although it will be next year before it is built) £300k 38 will probably fetch a similar amount (£300k) in 2015 when the owner has had 3 years fun out of it.

Almost all boats lose value in real terms because of inflation - now running at near 5%. So a new 38 in 2015 will cost about £350k - but then you will be able to buy a bargain 2012 boat for £300k!

This almost constant money price is most obvious in high priced, low volume production boats, where controlling supply of new boats has supported a strong market for used boats of the same type. It is not so true of large volume mass produced boats where the volume on the used market and until recently the ease of buying new has depressed used boat prices.

So, the choice is, do you spend less, aware that you will probably lose in money terms, or invest more of your assets in a higher value boat (with the additional opportunity cost) and recover a higher proportion when you sell.

I expect that you will find the overall cost over, say a 10 year period (based on recent past experience) would be very little different between a 40 AWB and a Southerly (or HR, Malo etc). The decision just requires the commitment to tie up a higher proportion of your assets in the boat, and whether you value the pleasure of owning such a boat.

I am just about with you on this one....

But what about the cost of opportunity... at say, 4% on that 50k over 3 years your talking £6k right their..... Dont forget that 250k boat has a load of gear, which will have to be factored in to the new purchase price.... and then of course the depreciation on those extras.....

In reality the only reason to spend the extra, even if it is just the £6k... is for the experience of ordering and commissioning a NEW boat... which by my experience is not worth the hastle! I suspect the 2 or 3 year old boat will have less snags than the new boat....

 

[Tranona]

Last time I was at one of Northshore's open days, I sat in a 38 listening to a conversation between two ladies - one of whom had just taken delivery of a 38 and the other in the process of ordering one. Their decision criteria and priorities were rather different from mine, and you could understand why only a new boat built like that would do!

Thank goodenss there are people like that with the money to buy new boats so that others can have the benefits 10 years or more down the line.

 

[Seven Spades]

If you start to add up the cost of boating you won't do it as it does not make any sense so don't bother. If the Southerly is the right boat for you buy it.

I like the Southerly range but if I had to criticise them I would say they are like kitchens, they have been designed to appeal to the decision maker in the household. They are stunning down below almost designer-like and reputedly sail well, but where do you put everything? There is a real lack of cupboards in the saloon and cabins, if I had the money I might consider one but I don't like to see so many open shelves. We always need lots of room to carry food and clothes.

 

[Ric]

They are stunning down below almost designer-like and reputedly sail well, but where do you put everything? There is a real lack of cupboards in the saloon and cabins, if I had the money I might consider one but I don't like to see so many open shelves. We always need lots of room to carry food and clothes.

Seconded. Also, most of their designs have no suitable sea berth. Mind you, same criticism can be levied at designs from most boatyards.

 

[Tranona]

If you start to add up the cost of boating you won't do it as it does not make any sense so don't bother. If the Southerly is the right boat for you buy it.

I like the Southerly range but if I had to criticise them I would say they are like kitchens, they have been designed to appeal to the decision maker in the household. They are stunning down below almost designer-like and reputedly sail well, but where do you put everything? There is a real lack of cupboards in the saloon and cabins, if I had the money I might consider one but I don't like to see so many open shelves. We always need lots of room to carry food and clothes.

One of the topics of the conversation I referrred to above was about storage in the galley - along the lines of "I like everything accessible - don't want to have to go into lockers to get at pans etc". So, the builder meets customer needs - which is perhaps why Southerly is still in business and others have fallen by the wayside.

 

[Teetime]

If you start to add up the cost of boating you won't do it as it does not make any sense so don't bother. If the Southerly is the right boat for you buy it.

I like the Southerly range but if I had to criticise them I would say they are like kitchens, they have been designed to appeal to the decision maker in the household. They are stunning down below almost designer-like and reputedly sail well, but where do you put everything? There is a real lack of cupboards in the saloon and cabins, if I had the money I might consider one but I don't like to see so many open shelves. We always need lots of room to carry food and clothes.

Southerly have taken note of your remarks Seven and fitted extra cupboards. Most of the side shelves in the saloon on my 38 have been boxed out with very neat cupboards. Above these is now a nice hand hold.We have no problems at all with stowage. Problem is we can never remember where we put everything.

 

[E39mad]

Seven SPades - if you have your own built you can (used to be able to) request (within reason) your own modifications to suit.

One of beauties (imho) of being able to afford having a new boat in Southerlies case is that you can see the boat build progress and know and see the boats systems before she goes in the water.

 

[Seven Spades]

Southerly have taken note of your remarks Seven and fitted extra cupboards. Most of the side shelves in the saloon on my 38 have been boxed out with very neat cupboards. Above these is now a nice hand hold.We have no problems at all with stowage. Problem is we can never remember where we put everything.

Well that sounds great. They should update the photos on their web site. It is nice to see that they have adapted their design to meet an obvious need. I see that SJ has designed a new 47, which looks really nice as well... but I don't understand why did didn't put one head on each tack.

Ho hum there is no pleasing me...

 

[Oscarpop]

Thank you all for the opinions. As yet the decision is still going on in my head, and I am none the wiser. SWMBO told me this morning that " why should you need to spend 300k on a 38ft boat, when you can spend 150k on a 38ft AWB and retire two years earlier". I can't argue with the logic of that.

As a second point, there is a Southerly 110 three berths down from us that looks in no better nick than our AWB does. Both about the same age, both looked after. I also could see no real discernable difference in the quality of the joinery or the fittings, and believe me I looked! Southerly joinery is veneered marine ply (just like ours). In some ways as the Hanse doesnt need a huge keel box, the interior layout is better.
Our Hanse in many places looked a better finish and quality below than the Southerly.
The owner ( who is a lovely chap) was saying that the seakeeping ability was amazing, which I agree with, however on looking at the two boats, literally almost side by side, the only real benefit that I can see to the Southerly is the lifting keel.
Now before I get torn apart. I know that the SOutherly is better built. But the components, winches,blocks,spars,sails,cooker,fridge,electronics,wheel,heads are all from the same manufacturers. In fact Hanse use Simrad which IMHO are better than most electronics manufacturers.
Please continue to air you views as it is hugely important to me.
On a final note, I have started to believe that aside from the swinging keel, the next best selling point of a Southerly is the bragging rights it gives you in the bar. Please discuss?

 

[Tranona]

There is a lot in what you say - particularly about the fittings - mast engine, deck gear, much of the domestics is the same, although usually one size larger, reflecting the heavier displacement (generally) of the semi custom boats. It is easy to see where the differences are in construction, finish and design, but what is not so easy is to reconcile these differences with the premium price.

Clearly some people do and presumably are aware of the premium they are paying, so take a less utilitarian approach to their decisions. Owning a boat of any sort is rarely just a rational decision so it is hardly surprising that people look for other kinds of returns from their investments.

I own a Morgan - bought new, mainly for the pleasure of owning it with all its faults. I rationalise it, because like the premium boats we are discussing here it is worth in money terms much the same as I paid for it 8 years ago.

 

[PaulR]

interesting the comments about relative performance between southerly and ovni - as a winter dinghy sailor have some confidence in the published portsmouth yardstick figures for dinghies as a good indicator of relative performance - have tried finding similar info for cruising yachts and many do not seem to have a quoted/published handicap and reference to elapsed times for RTI race clearly shows massive differences in same designs sailing same course on the same day (just like one design dinghies), by contrast if I want to choose a car performance figures are normally readily available but for yachts always seems to be vague - tend to rely on boat tests and own view from looking at the shape and design and so far been pretty happy - ovni is on my next boat list so have read various tests on them and certainly never read any suggestion that they don't perform well but for me best test is to encounter one on the water and see how they perform relative to our current boat (bit topical for us today having encountered a southerly 110 (design we also like) - on dead run with it flying a cruising chute only and us under full main only (wind c 20 knots true) - would like to have both been beating to get a comparison of relative performance upwind - have to admit to hating being overtaken but less put out if it is by a boat I would like to own next! wish there were more ovnis and allures out to compare performance to but sadly the french builders seem to be not producing enough !

 

[Twister_Ken]

Thank you all for the opinions. As yet the decision is still going on in my head, and I am none the wiser. SWMBO told me this morning that " why should you need to spend 300k on a 38ft boat, when you can spend 150k on a 38ft AWB and retire two years earlier". I can't argue with the logic of that.

As a second point, there is a Southerly 110 three berths down from us that looks in no better nick than our AWB does. Both about the same age, both looked after. I also could see no real discernable difference in the quality of the joinery or the fittings, and believe me I looked! Southerly joinery is veneered marine ply (just like ours). In some ways as the Hanse doesnt need a huge keel box, the interior layout is better.
Our Hanse in many places looked a better finish and quality below than the Southerly.
The owner ( who is a lovely chap) was saying that the seakeeping ability was amazing, which I agree with, however on looking at the two boats, literally almost side by side, the only real benefit that I can see to the Southerly is the lifting keel.
Now before I get torn apart. I know that the SOutherly is better built. But the components, winches,blocks,spars,sails,cooker,fridge,electronics,wheel,heads are all from the same manufacturers. In fact Hanse use Simrad which IMHO are better than most electronics manufacturers.
Please continue to air you views as it is hugely important to me.
On a final note, I have started to believe that aside from the swinging keel, the next best selling point of a Southerly is the bragging rights it gives you in the bar. Please discuss?

The real question is whether you NEED a lifting keel. If you do, that rules out most bigger AWBs, and so your choice at the 38' mark is limited to a very few builders. If you'd only LIKE a lift keel, but don't actually need it then you have a quandary. How much extra are you prepared to pay to be able to park in a puddle, or walk ashore dry shod. £100K – which is what it would have cost me – pays for quite a lot of deep water mooring and marina nights. So I decided to live with 2m of lead. So far, I'm ahead on the deal!

 

[Blueboatman]

300k I'd be mighty tempted to go Swedish or a nice s/h Rustler 42.
Proven, good residuals, 'no worries' comfortable sailing, no gimmicks, quality throughout a given.

 

[Oscarpop]

How much extra are you prepared to pay to be able to park in a puddle, or walk ashore dry shod. £100K – which is what it would have cost me – pays for quite a lot of deep water mooring and marina nights. So I decided to live with 2m of lead. So far, I'm ahead on the deal!

And that my friends is the deal breaker. Thank you. I don't need 2'4" at the touch of a button.

 

[Bob pearson]

Southerly 38

Hi just picked up this thread
We have owned a southerly 38 since 2009, it replaced our Najad 38
strange Najad 38 was 37 feet and southerly 38 is 41 feet
So 300k for a 41 footer is good value for this blue water lifting keel go anywhere yacht
Much better quality than Najad and much better to sail
Ours is now for sale at less than 300k as we are getting back into round the cans racing
So if interested you can contact us on 07970 546946 to talk about southerlies and how great they are

 

[Bob pearson]

Southerly 38

Just done reply, not sure it got through
I own s38 previously Najad 38
S38 better all round
Second hand are rare because they are so good
Mine for sale
If u want to talk which I prefer ring 07876446710

 

[Ric]

A couple of questions about S38:

How is forward visibility from down below? Stephen Jones appears to have designed the yacht with lower coachroof than the Rob Humphries designed boats and I wonder whether forward visibility has suffered as a result?

Also, how do they handle in a heavy following sea compared to the S110? The S110 is reputedly very directionally stable, and wondered whether the S38 is as good?

I am interested in any comments from those who have sailed both the S110 and S38.

 

[robertj]

Can you afford the southerly?
Do you prefer the Southerly?
Who's money is it?
Do you want the Southerly?
Will you live forever?

What ever boat you chose there will be people who agree and disagree.