Southerly 105.... any inside information?

[NealB]

At long last, with a mixture of excitement and sadness, our old catamaran is now sold.

So the search for our next boat commences in earnest.

Ideally, she'd be:

- about 35 feet oa
- shallow draft (up to 5 feet)
- ability to dry out easily is a valued bonus (we love tiny creeks with thin water)
- something a bit out of the ordinary (I know, a Bavaria 34 would be a very, very, sensible choice, but we'd prefer something less ubiquitous, and she fails the not essential drying out test)
- steerable from inside (I've been listening to DanCrane too much)
- decent sailing performance (comparable to something like Westerly Fulmar or Sadler 34, maybe)

Last week we had a look at a Southerly 105.

Now, I really didn't expect to like her, but she ticks all of the above boxes, and she's a really well designed boat. She's almost won us over.

I've got a test report from YM, but Mr Durham doesn't really give much hard information.

I wonder if we've got any owners/ ex owners/ crew on here who could offer any thoughts?

How do they sail? The Byron Portsmouth number software, suggests a handicap of 984.

Anything structural that needs careful inspection (yes, Andy Seajet..... I know about the lifting keel!)?

I've noticed that most seem to have been fitted with bow thrusters. Does this suggest they are a bit tricky to handle under power? I can imagine she'd be 'interesting' in fresh breeze with the keel up: how much keel needs to be lowered to overcome this?

How practical are the split level berths in the forecabin?

Thanks for any comments, positive or negative).

 

[Tranona]

Early boats had very shallow rudders which makes them a bit wayward in a breeze. Together with keel up and lots of windage low speed handling is poor - hence the need for a bow thruster. Later models had modified rudders and some older boats have been converted. Last of them (but not 105s) had twin rudders.

Marmite boats but have a strong following amongst those that value the shallow draft and deep draft with keel down.

Also look at Moody Eclipse 33 which had a twin keel option. as Dan's threads illustrate, choice is limited with this type of requirement for all the reasons aired in the threads!

 

[NealB]

Early boats had very shallow rudders which makes them a bit wayward in a breeze. Together with keel up and lots of windage low speed handling is poor - hence the need for a bow thruster. Later models had modified rudders and some older boats have been converted. Last of them (but not 105s) had twin rudders.

Marmite boats but have a strong following amongst those that value the shallow draft and deep draft with keel down.

Also look at Moody Eclipse 33 which had a twin keel option. as Dan's threads illustrate, choice is limited with this type of requirement for all the reasons aired in the threads!

Thanks, Tranona.

The 105 looks, to me, to have a fairly deep, lifting rudder (transom hung).

I thought it was the later 100 that suffered with a small rudder, which was eventually redesigned to have twin rudders?

Good call on the Moody Eclipse 33 (hope to be seeing one at the weekend).

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks, Tranona.

The 105 looks, to me, to have a fairly deep, lifting rudder (transom hung).

I thought it was the later 100 that suffered with a small rudder, which was eventually redesigned to have twin rudders?

Good call on the Moody Eclipse 33 (hope to be seeing one at the weekend).

You are correct.

I'll ignore the 28 as it was completely different design and not a all similar to what you'd think of as a lift keel Southerly.

The 95 and 105 both had the modern type of Southerly lift keel but early versions had a design defect at the lifting bracket. It was part of the keel casting and aft section was complicated and thin. It is highly unlikely any 95s or 105s would still have the original design as they pretty much all fractured after 5-6 years. It will almost certainly have the modification which involved drilling into the top and bolting on a bracket. Later Southerlies had a much simpler casting in that area and used the bolt on bracket instead.

I had an S95 for more than 23 years but have not sailed the S105. However, I have spoken to several S105 owners and am pretty certain it was similar to the S95.

Southerly 95
Sails better than you'd expect
Helm gets very heavy when wind gets up. Tiring but workable (that's with a tiller) and you can keep going. The S100 with retrousse stern had a tiny non-lifting rudder and I was always told that it was very difficult to sail in stronger winds. It would round up no matter what you did as the small rudder kept stalling.

The S95 has a lot of windage so performance drops off in stronger winds. Really good in light wind up to F4. I had quite a big roller furling genoa so windward performance got worse at F5 when reefed.
I never needed a bow thruster. Southerly solved the tiny rudder problem by fitting twin rudders. Most, if not all, twin rudder versions had a bow thruster because prop. wash could not be used to swing the stern. S95 & S105 make use of the prop wash and this helps a lot. Coming in to very shallow harbours is even easier than in deep water. Simply lift the keel 3-4" and proceed slowly until it drags over mud or sand. Use prop. wash to spin boat in desired direction whilst lifting or lowering keel to get forward movement or spin on the spot. Drop the keel if you lose control and you just sit with the handbrake on. Remember to always keep the rudder higher than the keel. The rudder slides up and down a hollow tube which can be bent easily. No problem when fully down or fully up but vulnerable when halfway. Don't worry about rocks at slow speed, the keel tip will either slid up over them or slow the boat to a gentle stop. Don't try it with keel fully lowered as it will bang up and down on the lifting bracket.

Not quite so easy in deep water. You need to keep moving as the keel shape doesn't grip well at very low speed. Coming alongside at very low speed will certainly be an issue in strong wind because of the windage. Usually OK with more speed. We only had a big problem once when downdraft from harbour wall kept blowing us away as we approached. However, that was very unusual as the only gap was on an angled section of wall and it was very, very windy.

To be honest, most of the stuff about reefing and windage applies to most boats. The impact of windage is just worse on the Southerlies because they are slab sided with little under the water. However, the lift keel more than balances that out in shallow water.

 

[E39mad]

The 105 is the predecessor of the 115 and all 105's had a transom hung lifting rudder. Oddly exactly 105 were built until 1983 when the change to the 115 occurred. They have the triangular shaped lifting keel which are 1/3 of the ballast - the other 2/3rds being in the integral "grounding plate" which is what you sit on when drying out.

They are not difficult to manage under power with the keel down but with the keel up the turning circle doubles from one to two boat lengths hence a bow thruster can be useful in shallow confined waters.

The keel systems and mechanisms are extremely robust however as with all moving items they require inspection every so often. The grounding plate with keel can be removed to inspect properly. The two kevlar pennants that are on the end of the hydraulic ram need changing every 5 years or so.

Sailing wise I would not say they are as good as a Fulmar but they have an acceptable turn of speed for a cruising boat and point better than most bilge keelers. Like the early 100's and 115's they like to sailed relatively flat otherwise steering loads up and directional stability becomes more difficult.

 

[NealB]

Thank you, Mistroma and E39mad......very useful.

 

[Mistroma]

The 105 is the predecessor of the 115 and all 105's had a transom hung lifting rudder. Oddly exactly 105 were built until 1983 when the change to the 115 occurred. They have the triangular shaped lifting keel which are 1/3 of the ballast - the other 2/3rds being in the integral "grounding plate" which is what you sit on when drying out.

They are not difficult to manage under power with the keel down but with the keel up the turning circle doubles from one to two boat lengths hence a bow thruster can be useful in shallow confined waters.

The keel systems and mechanisms are extremely robust however as with all moving items they require inspection every so often. The grounding plate with keel can be removed to inspect properly. The two kevlar pennants that are on the end of the hydraulic ram need changing every 5 years or so.

Sailing wise I would not say they are as good as a Fulmar but they have an acceptable turn of speed for a cruising boat and point better than most bilge keelers. Like the early 100's and 115's they like to sailed relatively flat otherwise steering loads up and directional stability becomes more difficult.

No need for a bow thruster in shallow water as long as you have someone to lift & drop the keel. They pretty much slide sideways with keel fully up. The trick is to drag the tip along the bottom or just above. Lift slightly and apply throttle to move forwards. Allow tip to touch and use prop wash to turn.

We started by simply lifting the keel almost fully and quickly learned it was a bad idea. I've seen many people look puzzled as we zig-zagged into a tight berth. Sometimes not even putting fenders out until almost alongside. Then we'd put the handbrake on and sit there until lines and fenders sorted. Raise the keel and move the last few feet when ready.

 

[RichardS]

At long last, with a mixture of excitement and sadness, our old catamaran is now sold.

So the search for our next boat commences in earnest.

Ideally, she'd be:

- about 35 feet oa
- shallow draft (up to 5 feet)
- ability to dry out easily is a valued bonus (we love tiny creeks with thin water)
- something a bit out of the ordinary (I know, a Bavaria 34 would be a very, very, sensible choice, but we'd prefer something less ubiquitous, and she fails the not essential drying out test)
- steerable from inside (I've been listening to DanCrane too much)
- decent sailing performance (comparable to something like Westerly Fulmar or Sadler 34, maybe)

It sounds to me that a new cat would fit the bill perfectly!

Richard

 

[NealB]

It sounds to me that a new cat would fit the bill perfectly!

Richard

Logically, that makes a lot of sense (we had a look at a Gemini 105 last week).

Rather eccentrically, though, I've begun to miss heeling over.