South Coast to Alderney

[yerffoeg]

Hello,

I am planning to sail to the Channel Islands for the first time in July. My Sabre 27 averages about 5 knots (probably a bit optimistic). I will probably port hop around the English Coast from the Blackwater, make the crossing, and then port hop the French Coast on the way back.

I was wondering about the best departure point from the South Coast: Portland? Yarmouth? Lulworth Cove? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[prv]

To some extent it's going to depend on the wind direction. If it's southwesterly, or SSW, then the further west you can start from the better. Otherwise, I don't think there's anything special to consider. Looking at the chart, Studland / Swanage / Lulworth look like the closest jumping-off points, but we've always departed from the Needles with no bother. We tend to anchor either just inside Hurst Spit or in Alum Bay, depending on wind direction, to get an easy early start.

Pete

 

[laika]

What prv said with the additional obvious statement that if you time your departure to make the most of the ebb and minimise the flow you improve your angle with the prevailing winds. Studland is my favourite place of departure for points south due to ease of ingress/egress, knowing there'll be no hassle finding somewhere to anchor and the attractiveness of the place. No need to anchor close in so no whiff of seagrass controversy. Lulworth you have the hassle of negotiating the firing range if active and then the possible stress of finding space to anchor after a day's sail but you still have Portland as a backup. Portland is bleak, not somewhere I'd wish to tarry and quite a hike further than Studland at 5 knots, especially avoiding the firing range (and the anchorage isn't exactly by the entrance). It does give a better cut on the prevailing wind but as the getting there might add a day to your schedule you might consider the options of accepting a longer day and putting in a tack or simply going via cherbourg

 

[Tranona]

The key thing is timing your arrival at the north end of the Alderney Race just as the tide turns south, then work back from there to your departure time. As suggested Poole or Studland are good choices for departure point. For first time, Poole Cherbourg is perhaps better for the cross channel leg. Much more predictable and less dependent on state of tide. Easy to enter, good marina and most of all opportunity to stock up with essentials. Cherbourg to Channel Islands is very straightforward following Pilot book instructions on timing.

 

[jac]

Either end of the Solent depending on wind direction but given prevailing winds we've gone to Studland. Relaxing and easy exit at any state of the tide so can time arrival for late afternoon / early evening.

If you go from inside the Solent you do pretty much have a tidal gate at Hurst / the needles that you must plan for which can either make for an unpleasantly early start or an arrival as it starts to get dark which is probably best avoided for a first time visit.

Just be aware of the strength of tides near Alderney / French coast. It's worth replanning your approach once clear of the shipping lanes again and then ensuring you are about on track for those last 4-5 hours.

 

[jac]

The key thing is timing your arrival at the north end of the Alderney Race just as the tide turns south, then work back from there to your departure time. As suggested Poole or Studland are good choices for departure point. For first time, Poole Cherbourg is perhaps better for the cross channel leg. Much more predictable and less dependent on state of tide. Easy to enter, good marina and most of all opportunity to stock up with essentials. Cherbourg to Channel Islands is very straightforward following Pilot book instructions on timing.

Although Cherbourg is French!!!!!!!

 

[laika]

Although Cherbourg is French!!!!!!!

I'd replace "Although" with "And" there. Cherbourg is in the EU. Alderney isn't. Going via Cherbourg reduces the amount of paperwork you're supposed to do. Especially if the OP is coming back via france. I think I discussed here last year how according to the National Yachtline I was apparently the first boat ever to have gone to the channel islands via france but come back directly which is why they had no clue how to deal with it...

 

[Angele]

The key thing is timing your arrival at the north end of the Alderney Race just as the tide turns south, then work back from there to your departure time.

IMO, that is essential advice if trying to head south of Alderney (including to Alderney's south coast) on a single passage from the UK, but not necessary if the intention is to stop in Braye. The times I find myself in Braye are those occasions when I cannot time it to go straight through the race, given my preference for doing long passages in daylight. I just make sure I err on being uptide of Alderney when getting close. It is only mildly inconvenient to be approaching Alderney between HW Dover + 6 and HW Dover -2, when the tide is setting to the ENE. It certainly isn't against you.

(The usual advice for going south through the race is to arrive between Alderney and Cap de la Hague at HW Dover).

 

[Angele]

I think I discussed here last year how according to the National Yachtline I was apparently the first boat ever to have gone to the channel islands via france but come back directly which is why they had no clue how to deal with it...

Next time you won't bother then....

 

[prv]

I think I discussed here last year how according to the National Yachtline I was apparently the first boat ever to have gone to the channel islands via france but come back directly which is why they had no clue how to deal with it...

The one time I phoned them, it sounded like it was the first time the guy had ever heard from a yacht at all.

I could only conclude that hardly anybody does it, so I joined their ranks in future.

Pete

 

[jac]

IMO, that is essential advice if trying to head south of Alderney (including to Alderney's south coast) on a single passage from the UK, but not necessary if the intention is to stop in Braye. The times I find myself in Braye are those occasions when I cannot time it to go straight through the race, given my preference for doing long passages in daylight. I just make sure I err on being uptide of Alderney when getting close. It is only mildly inconvenient to be approaching Alderney between HW Dover + 6 and HW Dover -2, when the tide is setting to the ENE. It certainly isn't against you.

(The usual advice for going south through the race is to arrive between Alderney and Cap de la Hague at HW Dover).

Ditto.

Can't think why you would miss Braye anyway ( unless too much north in the wind.) Even if heading on Braye makes a nice pit stop after what is likely to be a 12 hour sail and makes the timing to the Alderney race a hell of a lot easier.

 

[Angele]

Hello,

I am planning to sail to the Channel Islands for the first time in July. My Sabre 27 averages about 5 knots (probably a bit optimistic). I will probably port hop around the English Coast from the Blackwater, make the crossing, and then port hop the French Coast on the way back.

I was wondering about the best departure point from the South Coast: Portland? Yarmouth? Lulworth Cove? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

I don't really think it matters which of those you pick (or even further east, such as Portsmouth). The advice given so far correctly points out that some are better than others, depending on wind direction, but you cannot plan for that until close to your departure date.

The one word of warning I would give is to be prepared to abandon Alderney (assuming you are thinking of Braye) if the forecast means a NE wind is likely whilst you are there. It gets pretty uncomfortable there in those conditions. Best to divert to Cherbourg, or to head straight past to destinations further south, in those conditions.

 

[farquart]

The key thing is timing your arrival at the north end of the Alderney Race just as the tide turns south, then work back from there to your departure time. As suggested Poole or Studland are good choices for departure point. For first time, Poole Cherbourg is perhaps better for the cross channel leg. Much more predictable and less dependent on state of tide. Easy to enter, good marina and most of all opportunity to stock up with essentials. Cherbourg to Channel Islands is very straightforward following Pilot book instructions on timing.

What he said, as a newbie we went the Chergbourg route, its much easier and after 12hrs sailing you will be tired. Have a good nights sleep in cherbourg stock up at the big Carefour and hope down to Alderney the next day.

 

[Angele]

Ditto.

Can't think why you would miss Braye anyway ( unless too much north in the wind.) Even if heading on Braye makes a nice pit stop after what is likely to be a 12 hour sail and makes the timing to the Alderney race a hell of a lot easier.

Personally, my preference is to bypass Alderney on the outbound trip in order to head straight for Sark (or Guernsey if the weather is not sufficiently settled). Nothing more satisfying than arriving off Cap de la Hague, after a cross Channel sail, just as the tide turns and it sucks you southwards, with double digit SOG. I tend to leave Alderney as a stop off when returning north, primarily because I want to arrive back at my berth at a sensible time to pack the boat away and then get the train back home.

 

[jac]

At the risk of thread drift - what is the official paperwork position re channel islands via France?

I know that if you go UK - France it's officially things like SSR/ ICC / Proof of Vat Paid etc - if UK - CI then iirc 1331 - Q flag on return / national yachtline as it's outside EU.

Don't the French require some type of clearance to leave the EU ( or rejoin it for that matter) or is it only the UK that adds extra inconvenience?

 

[marklucas]

.... the amount of paperwork you're supposed to do.....

No-one bothers - it's a farce - and last time on the way back I picked up some new friends from North Africa.

This is a private (dark web) forum isn't it?


Oh no, the NSA are after me.

 

[laika]

Don't the French require some type of clearance to leave the EU ( or rejoin it for that matter) or is it only the UK that adds extra inconvenience?

I did some investigation on that a couple of years ago. If there is none then the whole C1331 procedure is blatantly farcical: What is the point of some countries enforcing such paperwork if all EU countries don't? Even if everyone voluntarily fulfils their obligations, the records are incomplete and therefore would seem a waste of taxpayers' money. Unfortunately the Border Agency representative I spoke with "couldn't say" whether or not other countries had such requirements and couldn't understand my point of logic. He helpfully suggested that I contact the French Embassy.

Asking at the capetainerie in a couple of places has resulted in blank stares. No French yachties I've spoken to are aware of any required paperwork. Most aren't aware that the channel islands aren't part of the UK.

 

[Angele]

Don't the French require some type of clearance to leave the EU ( or rejoin it for that matter) or is it only the UK that adds extra inconvenience?

They don't even fuss about their own (i.e. French registered) boats visiting the CI, let alone to give a monkeys about British ones stopping off in a French port en route between the UK and C.I.

 

[johnalison]

We found the easiest way to get to Alderney from the East Coast was to cross from Brighton to Cherbourg, and then on. The crossing is ninety miles but you can time it to get about five hours of adverse tide, making it a very quick trip. We did it several times in a Sadler 29. From Cherbourg it is only a short half day hop to Alderney. With luck, you will be there in four days from home, using only day passages, or less if you want to make Brighton in one hop as we sometimes did.

 

[Angele]

We found the easiest way to get to Alderney from the East Coast was to cross from Brighton to Cherbourg, and then on. The crossing is ninety miles but you can time it to get about five hours of adverse tide, making it a very quick trip. We did it several times in a Sadler 29. From Cherbourg it is only a short half day hop to Alderney. With luck, you will be there in four days from home, using only day passages, or less if you want to make Brighton in one hop as we sometimes did.

If the prevailing SW'ly wind is blowing (at F3+), I would have thought Brighton to Cherbourg in a boat doing 5 kts could be a tiring beat. 90nm could become 125 with the wind on the nose which, at 5 kts, is over 24 hours!

I guess the answer to all this is not to plan too much this early, and just see how things are looking as the OP heads along the English south coast from E to W. Then hop across when the distances and angle on the wind are within your zone of comfort. I guess a lot depends on how much time he has for the whole cruise, and therefore whether the gain (in terms of days saved by doing fewer hops along the south coast) is worth the pain of a less than ideal crossing route.

Also worth bearing in mind that Alderney to Guernsey is a very short sail as compared with Cherbourg to Guernsey. Neither is especially long, but the former is only just over half the distance of the latter - and that is the "fast" half when the tide is with you.