'Sound Signals'

DAKA

DAKA

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Jan 2005
Messages
9,255
Location
Nomadic
Visit site
\'Sound Signals\'

I had a close encounter today and my mind went blank for the correct sound signal /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

A Dinghy engrossed in loosing his race nearly ran into my port side.

I gave one long blast and he got the message but what should I have done ?

1 blast = Starboard

2 blasts = Port

3 blasts= astern ??

How many for shift ?

4

5

6
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
4 blasts on the horn has always meant:

"Get out of my way 'cos I ain't getting out of yours"!

[/ QUOTE ]

'Fraid not! 4 blasts is reserved for a Pilot vessel operating in restricted visability - fog. Normally proceeded with one long blast. Normal sound signal for a power driven vessel.

5 blasts means your intentions are unclear.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]

A Dinghy engrossed in loosing his race nearly ran into my port side.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you were operating in a narrow channel or were constrained by draft you were at fault not the dingy. He was presumably under sail and therefore except in the above circumstances (or you were restricted in your ability to manoeuvre) you were the stand off vessel. Why were you in such close proximity to a dingy racing fleet?

This happens a lot in the Hamble when the dingys are racing - you just have to keep out of the way, slow down, even stop if required. It can be a real pain at times, but power driven vessels are the stand off - unless being overtaken by a sailing vessel.

[ QUOTE ]
I gave one long blast and he got the message but what should I have done ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Got out of his way!


Another scenario could have been that you were at anchor - if so were you showing the correct day shape?
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

5 blasts, thanks for the replies /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks Solitaire /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Lets not turn it into a trolls playing field /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Obviously I would normally have given way but there were a lot of factors at play involved.

Crew stood on deck making sharp manoeuvres dangerous

Increased cost of fuel

Falling tide

unfamiliar channel

Dinghy race set across a channel

the race fleet had passed, there were only a few stragglers left behind

no square burgee flying

Lift out and set of props cost more than a set of sails for a dinghy !

As captain of my boat I deemed the channel narrow

The sailing dinghy was outside the channel when I first saw him, surly he can not just enter a channel with out checking it is first safe to do so .
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
The sailing dinghy was outside the channel when I first saw him, surly he can not just enter a channel with out checking it is first safe to do so .

[/ QUOTE ]
So - you sat there watching him enter the channel and proceed with a collision course - you had time to give a blast on your horn but no time to take a sensible avoiding manouver .... better get some lessons! and next time ask SWMBO not to do her Yoga on the foredeck.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Solitaire, considering these dinghies can turn on a sixpence, how can you miss them when they are dodging and weaving in all directions?

Last year, I watched a dingy racing down a line of moored boats when he suddenly turned, shot between two moored boats straight into the path of a MOBO.

Judging by the exchange of language, the dinghy crew were explaining to the hapless MOBO skipper that power gives way to sail.

I also witnessed a racing dinghy weaving all over the place and eventually T bone a cruiser. How anyone expected the skipper to guess where the dinghy was going to turn next.

How do the regulations cope with fact that not all of us are mind readers, and unable to deal with these very fast and manoeuvrable pests?

Not a troll, but a very serious question.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

As captain of my boat I deemed the channel narrow
***********************************************


Yet the dingies were racing across it !!!!!!!!!! With keels so drawing as much as you....Or were you piloting the QE11

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
How do the regulations cope with fact that not all of us are mind readers, and unable to deal with these very fast and manoeuvrable pests?



[/ QUOTE ]

It's all about observation. Watch what is going on with a dingy racing fleet and act accordingly - I'm not a raggie, but observation will give you an idea of what's going to happen. I'm sorry but statements like "not all of us are mind readers" are irrelevant.

I know they can be a pain at times. You should be in the Hamble on a summer Wednesday evening, but you just have to cope. Some sailing clubs have safety boats out that know what they are doing and are good at trying to keep things ordered, but dingys do as dingys do - live with it and learn that they do have priority over power.

You have said that they move fast, so a mobo should slow down or even stop and hold station and wait for them to clear. Maintaining way and blasting the horn in a random way is not the answer and is one of the reasons why there can be tension between the two "camps".

I absolutely hate Cowes week - racing sailors have no comprehension of the col regs and think they can do as they please, but while under sail they pretty much can. It's when they are under power that they get "lost" /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Solitaire, considering these dinghies can turn on a sixpence

[/ QUOTE ]
and a MOBO can't?

[/ QUOTE ]

A bit of a silly question as a MOBO doing under five knots, can't suddenly turn out of the way of a dinghy doing ten knots that suddenly executes a ninety degree turn from a parallel course to hitting you as the one in my first example did. He turned into the MOBO from ten fifteen feet away and a MOBO at 5 knots cannot react that fast. I am sure someone can calculate how long it takes a dinghy to cover fifteen feet at ten knots. But no one can react that fast in a MOBO at five knots.

In the other case, the dinghy was weaving about and even did a 360 at one stage. How can the MOBO skipper who was watching the dinghy very carefully avoid a boat on random manoeuvres? The dinghy wasn't in a race, but was racing around with another dinghy, to qualify my original post, and the MOBO wasn't fitted with a hovering device. He didn't know where the dinghy was going to go next, so he simply slowed to minimum speed and was waiting for the idiot to clear the area. He didn't. He hit him instead.

A dinghy can turn on a sixpence - in its own length - a MOBO can't, especially a single screw. I think that is the problem, raggies must think that all MOBO's have twin screws and can turn quickly, but not all are twin screw.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Trouble is, dinghys are using rules intended for a three masted skooner. Then use the rules to force right of way, even though on many occasions they dont have right of way. It's fair enough to hang about and wait for a race to go by. But theres no excuse for dinghys flouting the law, especially teaching kids they have right of way all the time, which is noncence. Christ, as we limped into Salcolmbe sinking, klaxton sounding, blue lights on the Life boat along side and a rib on the other side. The [--word removed--] still wanted right of way. A few bounced off and the rest seemed to get the message. I've sailed dinghys years ago, there agile enough to just go some where your not. It makes no difference to them mostly, as there not going anywhere in particular. The rules need defining better. Thed rules just dont work with fifty deffiant dinhys to thread through.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

In answer to your initial question, either b or c (or more): “ the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving <u>at least </u> five short and rapid blasts on the whistle ” (Rule 34(d)).

As for your action in standing on… ho-hummmm.

Rule 9(b): A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow passage or fairway.

Let's analyse this situation in accordance with the above Rule, without any of the mobo v yottie antagonism which seems to be rising. There are three key phrases which are relevant to this case:

1. “ Shall not impede ”: this is not the same as being the give-way vessel.
Rule 8(f) states that such a vessel, should “… take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel ”. It goes on to say, however, that “a vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the Rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision ”.
So, the dinghy should have seen you following the channel and ensured that she kept out of the channel until you passed. Not having the experience /other things on their mind, they didn’t comply, and so a risk of collision developed. This doesn’t relieve the sailing vessel of the obligation to take early action, but at this point you, as the give way vessel under Rule 18(a), should have also taken measures to avoid collision.

2. “Safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway .” Cockcroft and Lameijer state that narrow channel rules “do not apply to a recommended route between two buoys where vessels could have gone safely outside ”.
You don’t mention the class of dinghy involved, but your draft is approx 3’3”, which is much the same as your average sailing dinghy. You may have been following the channel, but you were actually no more constrained by your draught than they were.

3. “ Vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel ”: this one should be obvious.
As you are less than 20 metres, you cannot claim narrow channel rights under IRPCS. Not a lot of people know that…..

In a nutshell, you never had any right of way.

Sorry and all that.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

First off ... 10 knots is quite fast for dinghies - maybe not the modern planing ones - but anything going upwind is generally going to be less than 8 knots - more like around 6.
Off the wind there has to be a reasonable wind for the dinghy to do 10 knots - in my 400 it takes a 3-4 with the kite up to do 10+ knots.

At 10knots I cannot "turn on a sixpence" - I'm going too fast for that sort of turn and will just capsize the boat.
At 2 knots I cannot "turn on a sixpence" - I don't have the speed of water over the rudder ...


"A dinghy can turn on a sixpence - in its own length - a MOBO can't, especially a single screw. I think that is the problem,"

A sailing dinghy can't just turn on a sixpence in its own length any more than a Mobo can - infact with a mobo if you can use rudder wash then you are more likely to be able to turn in your own length.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

A good understanding of racing a dinghy certainly helps.

I have honestly never had a problem keeping clear of racing dinghies in over forty years of sailing and motor boating in some of the UK's most popular sailing centres.

I do not regard them as 'pests' - to me, they greatly add to the interest, spectacle and fun of being afloat.

I do have sympathy with you in the cases you describe.

As we know, the IRPCS require the stand-on vessel, initially, to "maintain course and speed" (part 1 of rule 17). In the cases you describe, they clearly did not comply with this requirement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top