Sorry - another VAT question

[Fergus]

Trying to sell my boat to a dutchman - boat was built in 1973, told him doesn't need VAT receipt and sent him some text from C&E website on the subject - his reply..
"I checked with the Dutch customs and I referred to the words below. The regulation you refer to, seems to be abolished. This is at least so in the Netherlands, due to many Germans laying their boats in our country, thus avoiding VAT both in Germany and in the Netherlands.

What one needs to take a boat from abroad into the Netherlands is, e.g. a UK-custom-declaration that VAT has been paid in the UK. I do not know what the UK customs need to see before they can give such a declaration.

If they do no give such a declaration, we will have to pay import duties and VAT in the Netherlands, over the price of the boat and the costs of transport. This means an additional ± 23 % extra on the price we agree upon."

Anyone got any ideas? Have tried a search on the forum..

 

[MoodySabre]

You won't get anything from Customs & Excise.

No VAT is chargeable in this country on second-hand goods sold privately. I'm surprised it's not the same in Holland. Try looking at the RYA website or ring them.

 

[Pilgrim1]

Maybe it´s of interest how this matter is handeled in Germany:

If the boat has been build before 85 no VAT-confirmation isrequested ( but je need to prove the age ).
In other case you need to prove that the VAT for the boat has been paid in the EG at least one time.
I had my boat for a couple of years in the NL and my information is, that they have same regulations.

 

[jwilson]

VAT was introduced in the UK on 1st April 73.

If you can prove the boat was built before 1st April 73, you should not have to pay VAT on import into Netherlands or any other EEC country. However, Customs authorities are virtually laws unto themselves, and have such sweeping powers that it can often be very hard to argue with them.

Alternatively if the boat was built in late 73 - ie it was VAT paid - but the proof has long since been lost - a very common situation, you can claim VAT exemption in any EEC country provided you can PROVE the boat was built between 1973 and 1985, AND was in EEC waters at the stroke of midnight on the last day of 1992. Proof of whereabouts can be old mooring /layup biils, or a lteer from a harbour master or yacht club official confirming it was on their premises on that date. Pretty difficult to obtain retrospectively now - genuinely at least.....

 

[Birdseye]

In your position I would be inclined to write to the UK customs and outl;ine the problem - MoodySailor is most probably right but I have met the occasional helpful C&E man, one of whom gave me just the sort of declaration you want when I gave him lots of documentary reasons for believeing my story about my boat.

Depending on that I would then contact the commercial counsellor at the Dutch embassy who should be able to get you a proper ruling on the subject from Dutch customs. Again do it in writing with all possible details.

I have been told that this sort of approach has been tried by Dutch buyers as a way oif getting a big discount. That story might be codswallop, but it might not.........

 

[rwakeham]

I have just done loads of research on VAT and stuff - I was in a similar situation with a boat in the exemption period where boats were deemed to be VAT paid. It is true that the exemption rules were put in as a transitional arrangement, but they are still valid.

The best advice I got was from the RYA legal team - nice pragmatic approach.

A lot of work does seem to be going on trying to sort out the different countries interpretation of the EU directives but it is going to take time.

I have heard lots of stories of this being used as a way to get a discount.

 

[Frankklose]

There are four important items
1. The boat must have been build before 1985
2. The boat must have resided in the EEC
3. The boat should not have been outside the EEC for a period longer than 3 years.
4. The boat must be in the EEC at the time of sale.

I am German and lived in England and bought a boat at the time in England. Moved back to Germany and sold the boat a few years later in the Netherlands to a Dutch person.
With another boat I spend a few years in Croatia, and on my return I had to prove that I was never longer than 3 years outside the EEC. Luckily I was able to produce some harbour bills.

 

[PeterGibbs]

There is no VAT receipt you can produce for a boat built in 1973. If you have the original bill of sale this will end the matter.

If your purchaser persists with his line, I suggest you try to get a Dutch broker (one of the big ones) involved to reassure the purchaser. I realise there's nothing in it for the broker, but I have found the Dutch are generally a helpful bunch...

Of course, if you are short of bills of sale, a complete history so authenticated time in EU waters, that's another situation..

Even if you go to UK C & E for confirmation paperwork you will still have to show a trail of ownership, use in the EU etc

PWG

 

[Fergus]

Just spoke to C&E - nothing they can do. Spoke with VAT customs people in Holland and they confirmed that he must have a VAT paid certificate as if he leaves the boat outside the EU at any point and then returns he will be liable for 19% tax unless he has the document. This is crazy for a 35 year old boat!!